April 27th, 2018

For the last 12 years, Gigan has tremendously shocked the Death Metal world with their bright, insane and Technical Death Metal style that even involves Theremins and wild atmosphere.  I got a chance to talk with frontman, guitarist, founder and songwriter Eric Hersemann about Gigan, his previous work in Diabolic, how the music of Gigan is created, music theory, and even about life world views. 

(The entire audio transcript can be found at the bottom of the page)

 

Metalchondria:  This show tonight is the second day of the tour, yes? It's been about almost four years since the band has been here in the states.  What's been going on in the meantime since Dan and how things bigger on this tour as well?

 

Eric Hersemann:  So far so good. Like I said it's the second show of this tour. But last night was killer in San Diego. And then as far as what we've been doing for the past four years, we went to Europe a couple times since then and signed a new record contract, and I wrote that record. We rehearsed it and recorded it.  Despite what seems like a little bit of downtime we've actually been quite busy.

 

Yeah, that's awesome. That was a great show and how a lot of bands now are evolving with that kind of you know sound about for three or four years ago with bands like Ulcerate, Artificial Brain, of course Gigan as well. I'm glad to see that kind of like elite, more advanced type of extreme music you know, being prominent there. And speaking of that of that particular tour, was that the first headlining tour for Gigan in the States? 

 

No, we've done a few before that. Gigan started touring in 2007, but we didn't start headlining until after the third record, “Multi-Dimensional.”  So I think our first headliner was maybe, I think maybe the year before that 2013.  So we had then a couple and then that one since.

 

 And the main thing for this interview, I'm really fascinated by your style and your guitar sound and the music mind that you have.  Diabolic on “Infinity Through Purification”, you can hear the first riff on "From the Astral Plane...(Entwined with Infinity)”, was that your riff in there?

 

Yes!

 

That's how I knew it was, and the rest of the album as well hearing it back maybe like six months ago, you hear that album when you're younger, it kind of overwhelms you. Then when your ear gets better, and your mind gets better about it, there are those intricacies. How much are you involved in that album?  And tell me what was it like back then writing something that prolific 15 years ago?

 

 Yeah I was significantly involved.  They wrote all the lyrics for that record and it's a 50 – 55 percent of the music, all of the music writing duties are split between myself and my guitar player Brian Malone, who was the founding member of Diabolic. We wrote that whole record the two of us, there's all kinds of all kinds of stuff going on at the time and that band they've been around for a bit. But yeah it was a great experience. I loved it. My writing style has always been a little bit off the beaten path. I've always kind of a lot of dissonant things. The main reason why that particular Diabolic record sounds so much different than all the other records in their catalog, is because they had never incorporated those types of ideas previously, and certainly never since (laughs).  So it definitely stands out for sure. For better or for worse.

 

It's my favorite record of the whole catalog for that reason.

 

That's excellent! But yes so prior to that in my bands you know, Blasphemer, Burnt Offering stuff like that although the music I wrote for the Lord Blasphemer despite being kind of more traditional in its delivery from the air I mean you know it was a band that was around in the 90s and even in the late 80s. But even then, I was using and using dissonant chords and different tapping techniques and again off the beaten path kind of stuff, because my imagination is always kind of led me down things to or led me towards things rather that are a little bit stranger sounding just because if, you know, if you're going to for me anyway you're going to write about things that are weird and maybe even otherworldly. Your music should sound that way too but that's just kind of how I hear music in my head like when I'm writing stuff. So even when I went I joined a very, very traditional Death Metal band in Diabolic, despite pushing the envelope with velocity and stuff like that they were still at their core, you know very, I guess for lack of a better word, a very basic death Metal band. You know, definitely hitting all the right points. You know you could you could hear their influences the other influences on their sleeve I guess what I'm saying.  So by the time I started writing music for them it was completely off the beaten path. And that's one of the reasons why Brian wanted me so involved is because he was very much into that and wanted to push Diabolic forward. He felt that the band was stagnating at that time and had kind of that that style had been perfected before Diabolic about which is kind of pushing in the same direction, he wanted to go a different way. You know so that's why we worked so well together that being very good friends.

 

Why didn't you stay with Diabolic?  Was it because you wanted to do your own thing?

 

     No, no, quite the contrary. I loved being in that band. But Brian as I mentioned, was the founding member and for various reasons he decided to break up the band, for lack of a better way of putting it and he had a lot of stuff going on his personal life and was on his mind. Looking back on it you know he felt he was getting older at the time. But he was ready to move on from just being a professional musician and wanted to start a family. And you know, just kind of settle down for lack of a better way of putting it.  So, in his mind, “Infinity” was kind of we had reached the peak of the Diabolic sound. And so, he was content. We toured the world by that point and done all kinds of cool stuff and he was ready to move on and I had no say in the matter simply because it was his band who started it. He was the mastermind behind it. Certainly, there were other members that had contributed and stuff, but he was the you know, he was the driver behind the wheel of that bus. And when he decided that that he had had enough it was amicable.  We're still very close friends to this day, but he moved on.

     And then that's when I went on to join Hate Eternal, for about a year or two, in between “King of all Kings” and “I, Monarch”, through the “I, Monarch” recording process and after that, I came out performed in the videos for that record. And did that kind of stuff and then figured by that time I just wanted to do my own my own thing it was ready for me to finally have my own thing going on where I was calling all the shots, as opposed to kind of being in the passenger seat, wanted to be the driver.

 

     In terms your writing style of any either degree or studies in like guitar theory or engineering or anything at all?

 

      No, I have no formal training at all.  I went to university and stuff like that. But it was for writing and journalism. But I don't have any minutiae lessons when I was a kid. I've been playing since I was nine.  People always ask me if I agree in theory or anything like that I certainly do not.  It's just all from the heart.

 

     I'm going to butcher this, so forgive me. But when I show people Gigan and these are people who are experienced Death Metal like veterans who have been listening to Metal for like 18-19 years, the same with them. And I showed them a riff of yours, and they took a step back, “I've never heard this before.”  The thing is too about that has a lot of bands will have do that will have their normal kind of riffs or normal kind of song structures and then they'll have their peak moments of like that special kind of riffing in the bridge or so.  But your normal riffs or like if I'm singing it like (Singing the main riff to “The Raven and the Crow.”  Hear the audio of me doing this, I believe I did alright) “The Raven and the Crow”, and it just blows me away.  Honestly, it feels like a normal riff for you.

 

    Yeah, I would say if I had to pick one song out of our whole catalog or out of my whole catalog, I'm going to look at “The Raven and the Crow”, is definitely without a doubt the most straightforward. So, I mean there's no comparison. It's definitely the most straightforward song of the whole catalogue. But yeah like you said, you'll still play that when people hear that and that'll be their first Gigan song they've heard maybe, and it's of the same kind of reaction to any of the others (laughs).  ” I don't know what's going on here!  Where are the riffs?!” and stuff like that. To me it's like, “What are you talking about?  There’s riffs all over the place!”

 

     So just asking sort of a dense question, how do you make and how do you envision a riff like that into a song, like how does that come up?  What’s the story of the riff?  Every song has like a wave pattern and where it goes where do the wave lengths of that kind of music writing and that particular song or riff say, how does that occur?

 

     Well it's there's no different approach from song to song. So, for “The Raven and the Crow”, or any of the other songs is pretty much the same.  And it's a bit cliché and I like to hear the universal eyerolls happening when I say it, but it really is. I don't take a specific direction, like I don't sit down when I write a song, “Okay, I want this song to sound like this.” That was the whole antithesis of everything I wanted Gigan to be. All the all the bands I've been in previously, that was how you did it. You know there was a formula there and even a complex or “technical” kind of song. It’s still hit all those certain points that were expected. And I just, not really interested in that and haven't been for a really, really long time from a playing standpoint and so to me, I just pick up my guitar and I start to jam, and I just let go and let whatever happens, happens and I don't.  So, I'll start jamming and then realize you know this particular section of what I was just doing would be really cool. And then I will, I mean it's a very simple caveman-ish approach, but I just recorded into my iPhone and that's it.

 

What are you tuned to?

C#.

 And that's fascinating, about two years ago I interviewed Luc Lemay of Gorguts, and I asked about “Obscura” mainly, like how talked about it on video years before. They always had these little rules that they were like no triplets, they didn't want any scat drumming, etc.  Is there any kind of approach?  It's something you keep in mind for yourself, or just you just do in a way?

 

 I mean no, certainly neither of those things. You know I have those elements that Gigan but I think the only thing that I've kind of adhered to other than just the blanket statement of there are no rules. The only rule is no rules is that I don't know. I guess really not much of anything except I just try not to try to do anything that bores me. Honestly that's really the only thing I can say anything that if I am playing it and it doesn't keep my attention it's never going to be used or if I'm playing something and I know where it's going right away, I'm probably never going to use that. That's kind of really it.  The only thing that's been constant as far as listening back to stuff is like as far as like those things like Luc talk about and stuff like particular techniques.  There's never been a power chord on a Gigan record ever. There’s never been a bar chord on a Gigan record ever.

 

I couldn't tell.

 

     Yeah, to me it's kind of obvious (laughs).  But that's really it. That's kind of the only thing that if you could say like from a technical standpoint from the you know, that type of perspective. What's absolutely different from what this means, that what makes it sound so different?  Well, a big difference is that you know a majority of Heavy Metal music is rife with octaves and power chords, is something that really don't exist in the Gigan universe.

 

     Any octaves, no? 

     

     Sometimes yeah. But certainly, to a lesser extent.

 

     I notice too with the “Multi-Dimensional Fractal Sorcery and Super Science”. I have to get these names because it's important, and “Undulating Waves of Rainbiotic in Iridescence”, I noticed the difference with “Multi-Dimensional” is that it was not exactly heavy, but it felt a little more just like, really more in your face the production style.  And with this one, I felt was dense in a way that was just very I don't know, every instrument was linked.  In terms of the production was very solid, but everything wasn't played very tight, but everything felt like a very small link. Everything was able to flow like the waves I know of the songs but also some of the passages be a little slower. Talk about the differences especially with four years in between records, and what this one meant?

 

     Well for sure. I mean what you picked up on is certainly accurate.  “Multi-Dimensional”, like when people ask me to, like I've had people set me down, “Okay, describe that record, that record, that record, that record.”  And just like real succinctly and “Multi-Dimensional” it’s like the Gigan Death Metal Record (smiles).  If there ever was a Gigan record that was the most straightforward in my opinion, it’s going to be the first record, “Order of the False Eye”, and “Multi-Dimensional.”  If you if you take off the acid jam on the end of “Order of the False Eye”, then that one wins for sure. As far as like most straightforward, at least experimental.  But “Multi-Dimensional” is very experimental in many different ways. But as far as the song structures go and the delivery, you're absolutely right. It's very punchy and I mean succinct is the best way I can put it.  The songs are very song-y and everything is just tight in there which is what I was feeling at the time. And that goes back to what I'm saying earlier where nothing is on purpose and kind of worked out. When the record got done and then I was working on the cover art with Max (Winter), who's my artist that works on all of these with me. I took in the whole package, I was like, “Man, very much a Death Metal album.” It’s not what I intended at all but that's just what happened you know.  Well there you go. That's all that goes (laughs).

      And then the newest one was kind of the same thing. By the time I got done with it and listened to it back, it's very obvious like okay, this was a lot more esoteric and has a lot more haunting passages and stuff like that. But again, it's just what I was feeling when I wrote it. You know like it wasn't on purpose. You know it's just what has what came out and that's one of the things I've always kind of strive for, is like each Gigan album, or each Gigan release or even each Gigan song for that matter, it's like a photograph.  It's a piece you know like Atheist’s “Piece of Time.”  You know, it's like one particular piece of time where it's just representative of that moment. And it’s always invariably Gigan and because that's the beauty of it despite all the lineup revolving doors, it's always me doing everything so it's always going to sound like Gigan because unlike a Diabolic situation, where all of a sudden 50 percent of the record is written by a completely different dude. This is never going to be the case. So, it's always going to sound like me but it's going to sound like me at that point in time. So, when the first record came out there were a few contributions from my friend Randy (Piro) that sang on it. But again, the majority of it was all me and then moving on to the next one and beyond then it was literally 100 percent me.  So, it's always going to have that undercurrent of just whatever it is that I sound like but it's going to be me at that time. So, it's no different than a photograph of a person. It's always that person in photograph. But four years later that person you know lost some hair (points at his head, laughs), or you know whatever, they're married now, or you know whatever the case there's different circumstances in life that are going to cause you to be a little bit different. And the music is no different.

 

And you kind of answered the question and a half.  In terms of vocalists I notice that every album has a different vocalist! Is Jerry (Kavouriaris) still in the band or is it now Tyler (McDaniel)?

 

Jerry, and he’s done all the shows for this record. 

 

Speaking of that too, was it coincidental in terms of that, or did you want each record to have a different voice, literally?

 

      Are you kidding me?  No, it's a total pain in the ass.  No, I don't want my lineups to be the way they are. As far as like different people coming and going but I don't make people stay. Gigan’s a touring band, Gigan is a working band and Gigan always has been very demanding and as I've been mentioning over and over again since I do the lion's share of the work there's not a lot of glory to go around for everybody and in this genre of music there's also not a lot of money to go around either. So, in all honesty there's not a lot to keep people around.  Once they figure out like, “Oh hey I'm not going to be some big-time rock star or I'm not going to be able to pay my bills with this”, a lot of times or just like, “You know what, man?  I cannot make a lot of money in my own band” you know and I'm not an idiot.  I'm not going to tell them that's not true (laughs). It's absolutely true. So, the people that are jamming with me every it at any given time are people that are there legitimately just because they want to be working with me. Every lineup I've ever had and I'm friends with ninety nine percent of everyone I've ever worked with. Still to this day a close brothers and sisters as the case may be. And but sometimes life pulls you away. Just like just like I loved Hate Eternal, just like Brian loved Diabolic.  Sometimes, life just pulls you away and I'm never going to slow that down. If someone wants to go, that's all they need to say to me.  If there's any kind of doubt or anything like that. Like, none of these people for the record, have been fired.  They just leave, you know?  And it's a drag because there's plenty of people that I get to say, “Man, I wish that person would have stuck around, but I know how it is. You have to do what's best for yourself as an artist and for your lifestyle or both.

      So yeah that's why certainly the only thing that I do have a specific saying and what I'm controlling is who's next.  So, whenever I am creating a new lineup that's where I come in and I control what's going to go on. But as far as when somebody leaves, the minute they say, “Man, I don't know if I'm ready to do another six tours.” It's like okay, I totally understand, you know?

 

     In terms of, also speaking of members your drummer Nate Cotton has been there for about 4 or 5 years now? 

 

     Yeah, he's been recording with me for that long but then prior to that a lot of people don't know is, actually the first recording drummer of Gigan, not the first drummer, but the first recording drummer of Gigan was Grover Norton who was on the “Footsteps of Gigan EP”, and then there was Danny Ryan on the first record.  After Danny Ryan, quit Nick Cotton at the age of 19, no, at 20, started touring with me in Gigan, and then touring in Gigan.  But then because of his age he had so many things pulling him in different directions. He ended up quitting the band before I recorded “Quasi-Hallucinogenic (Sonic Landscapes”), which is when “Kaish” joined the band.  So I went from Nate to “Kaish” but Nate never gets that credit because he wasn't on a recording in between there but he was doing the work in between.  So, “Kaish” recorded there, and you know moved down to Florida.  He made a huge commitment dropped his life in Ohio, moved out of Ohio, lived with me, lived in his car. Like I mean just, he was above and beyond the call of duty for the band. You know it can never, never take that away from him in addition to putting on an amazing performance and being an amazing drummer.  You know, he made a lot of sacrifices for Gigan. But then when it was his time like you know, he ended up getting a full ride to engineering school because he's a brilliant kid and he literally said to me, “You know, I don't want to do this, but I have this opportunity.”  And I’m like, “Are you kidding me?!  Go!  Grab that, run with it, and don’t look back!”  And if we ever jam together in the future that's amazing. But you know, life dictates where you're going to go, not the other way around. And so he left, and I told Nate when Nate quit the first time I told him I said, “All right, I know you're leaving I know you having stuff going on but trust me you're going to want to come back. So, keep practicing your drums, keep working nonstop. You know the stuff that you need to work on. Keep working on it. And I'm going to call you someday, mark my words. I know how this goes.”  And sure enough three or four years later, after he had seen me with “Kaish” and stuff on multiple tours, “Kaish” did a bunch of big tours with us and we had stayed with Nate at his house you know, and he loved the new material and he and I remained friends. We've been friends the whole time. And when “Kaish” left, Nate was the only person I called and just like okay, so are you ready? And everything had fallen into place by this time and he’s like, “Man, I don't know if I can do it but I'm going to try.” And I was like okay well you got first crack at it, just like I promised. So, you know the rest as they say is history. So since that time now he's been in the band and he's been the only drummer to do consecutive recordings in the existence of the band. So that's the history there.

 

     The more consistency, the better, you know?  And speaking of a couple of years ago one of the best tours I've ever seen like personally for me in Europe, you played with Wormed and Ulcerate in Europe that looked like they were on the best tours I've ever seen, lineup wise. Tell me about that experience.  Was that the first time Gigan ever went to Europe?

 

     That was our first time in Europe. I've toured Europe before in the past but that was Gigan’s first tour in Europe. It was fantastic. It was great. I remain close friends with the Wormed guys, Ulcerate guys are good. And yeah, I can't say a single bad thing. That's great. All the shows were super fun. You know made a lot of new fans and a lot of people like you said the lineup was just you know from top to bottom just solid and yeah, wonderful.

 

     Is it a plan to go this year?  Is that something to consider?  Has there been talks about going back?

 

     It’s not going to happen this calendar year, but it is going to happen while we're supporting this record.  Right now, it's in talks for Spring of next year. We've been back to Europe since then. We did a headliner in late 2015 or early 2015 rather, with us and a band from Italy called Syk, S-Y-K.  And that was cool too, so yeah, we'll definitely be back for sure. They wanted us to come back.  Touring, it's difficult to juxtapose all the different schedules of everyone and everything like that but we could have already gone, but because we want to do something North America we've been offered first, in addition to this headliner we had to push back.  We have offers for Australia and New Zealand, so we want to do that too. So, it's just a matter of scheduling but we will be back to support this record.

 

     So pretty much just touring for this year?

 

     Yes, just touring this year and next year and then I'll start on the next record.

 

      My last question for you is just talking like when I asked Luc as well as that time, and I knew the answer, but when you make this kind of intricate music and then people have this view of you, “Well they must be this kind of person.”  And no, it doesn't really matter.  There’s happy people who make Horror movies all the time and he's absolutely right about that.  So, I’d like to ask what your worldview in terms of music, life, and everything in general that you know maybe is an influence for the band maybe it isn't for them for the music that you write and just your daily life because I notice how thoughtful you are in your music and your lyrics and how you are as a person, I’d like to know.

     Yeah, I try to emit as much positive energy as possible both in my life, and through Gigan’s music.  Gigan obviously, has a lot of aggressive tendencies but to me they're kind of just part and parcel to what we're doing. It's similar to like a bear or a shark or something like that where in its natural state when it’s doing its thing it's beautiful, it's in harmony with nature. But then when it's got to get shit done it can rip things apart if it needs to, or defend itself, you know?  And that's kind of how I treat life in general, but I'm a big believer in positive energy. You know, be getting positive results and I try to. It's very difficult especially in the realm of Heavy Metal as a whole to be a positive force because there's so much dark imagery and aggression, and that is part and parcel to everything that we're doing. And I mean you know all my favorite heavy metal bands that I was growing up, I loved all that imagery and dark lyrics and stuff like that.  But there's so much of that out there. It's one of the reasons why our album covers are so colorful as opposed to more “evil” or dark or whatever word you want to use. You know more bands that have you know with just a monochromatic color schemes in their album covers.  But then you'll find that same monochromatic attitude is in their lyrics as well or sometimes even in their song structures and music. And if I had to use one word to describe Gigan’s music, it would be a fight between imaginative and colorful because I'm not trying to convey one thing. You know trying to convey all of everything you know full palette and that's how I try to live my life as well like, I'm you know, a complex person. But which is why I write complex music (laughs). But I try to be a positive person and as angry as I get this pressure I get with the world at large you know which I'm not happy with hardly ever. I still just try to do my own thing. And you know it's like a “Where's Waldo painting you know where it's like there's just all this stuff going on and then there's me with my hat like in the one corner just doing my thing. You know so that's kind of how I look at it. I don't know if that's right.

That’s a great answer!  Anything you’d like to say for the fans tonight, the rest of the tour, and for everyone else, and for Gigan in 2018 this year?   

Just super thanks for being around. I know a lot of fans out there have been following me all the way back. But in particular those that have that have jumped on the Gigan train in the last 12 years. Thanks for sticking with it, being patient. I know there's a lot easier stuff out there to listen to.  So, I appreciate your attention to detail and given us a chance and just keep sticking with and I’ll keep doing my thing.