An Emergent evolution of Metal: In-depth discussion with Steffen Kummerer and Linus Klausenitzer of Obscura

Promoting the release of their newest record, Diluvium, Obscura returns to North America for the first time in seven years, bringing along a superb touring package with Beyond Creation, Archspire, Inferi, and Exist. With Diluvium making quite the statement that the band was not going anywhere, but only forward with some stellar Technical Death Metal, I also got the chance to talk with founder/guitarist/vocalist Steffen Kummerer and long time bassist extraordinaire Linus Klausenitzer. We discussed their long absence, terrifying Visa issues, how technical Death Metal should be, and much much more!

(The audio portion of the interview can be found at the bottom of the page. Although, the sound volume isn’t too great due to the tour bus being on and loud at some instances)

Metalchondria: It is the last day of this tour, and I believe five years since the band played with Devin Townsend, as support, in 2013?

Steffen Kummerer: Actually, it was in 2011, seven years ago. It's exactly the tour you mentioned. Long time for us it feels like, more like 20 years already. We haven't been here in a long, long time, and we're really glad that people still remember the band.

I believe that year the band did headlining shows, as well as those support shows, right?

Steffen Kummerer: Yeah, that's correct! We did a couple of off shows in between the tour, but also at the later point around the end of 2011, we were headlining shows in 2011 supporting the album, Omnivium.

Linus Klausenitzer: That was actually the last time we've been here, the 2011 headlining tour. There was about three months later after Devin Townsend.

Steffen Kummerer: Around December I believe. I had to check it out before we headed over.

And as you mentioned, seven years, that's a long time. I know the band was supposed to come here in 2015 for Summer Slaughter, and then the Visa issues. Was it because of the new material from Akroasis, and then the new one now right after? Why did it take so long for the band to come back, despite the 2015 attempt?

Steffen Kummerer: Actually, we had a gap between the album Omnivium and Akroasis, like five years in between. We toured a lot in Europe, we got some fantastic offers to tour Europe, like that. After the Death to All Tour, we did a 10 year anniversary show run, and a couple of others, but without a new album it doesn't make sense to tour the United States. Because as a foreign band, it's extremely expensive. The tickets for six band members is around $10,000, plus taxes and everything. Each of us thought that it didn't make sense without it. And for Akroasis, we tried to come over in 2015, doing a pre-tour to promote the record, a little bit before it was out. But we didn't get the Visas, and that hurt the band unbelievably, big. Like financially, we're talking about the Metal scene, there's not much money involved. If ever, as catastrophic like that, actually, close to breaking up (the band), (laughs).

It was that bad?

Yeah. We lost in total, $38,000 US dollars? Hard for me to ask the government, but still. If you ever, or any of your friends, have been in a touring band, you know how much money that is. Anyway, that was yesterday, now we are back in the States, and I think it's better than ever.

Linus Klausenitzer: We had no idea to expect after all those years. We thought about two options: "Option A, everybody forgot about us, it's been a while since we been here." "Option 2: Maybe people remembered and celebrated, like a comeback." But it was actually Option 3, that we didn't think about at all, which was, "New fans." Guess that we generated, just by making music constantly, most of the people that show up now, it's our biggest headlining tour in North America so far. Most of them have never been to an Obscura show before, so this is what makes us really happy, and what makes us realize that all the work, and the music that we have done in the last couple of years, makes sense. It's great to see the success like that, it's been really good.

And also in July, the band released Diluvium, a long awaited album. And I have to say, part of my question later about the departure of Hannes (Grossman, drummer), and Christian (Munzner, guitarist), I thought Akroasis for me, was a transition, relearning with band members and writing, because they were key players not only in ability, but they wrote whole songs for the albums, Cosmogenesis and Omnivium, as well. With this album, the production, dense in a way very work, not straight forward, but everything was very, very detailed, and like the structures, in the chorus of "Diluvium." Just a lot of layers within, really woven together, very complete I felt. Talk to me about the writing with this, and for Rafael's (Trujillo, guitarist) first time on this album, as well?

Steffen Kummerer: Well, Diluvium was basically written as all aspects of Obscura that it ever did, as a band. We never had the one member writing everything, it was always like a band at first. You have to see which member their certain strength, like arranging, or somebody's very gifted and can start writing parts in their instruments, yet sometimes you have to figure out. Or maybe the member's weaknesses, but I think Diluvium sums up pretty much what everybody in the band can do best. You mentioned Rafael as a new member, he was focusing a lot on his lead guitars, he was like "Bam!", together with Sebastian (Lanser, drummer), but we write very, very different. There isn't a certain plan about how to write songs, sometimes it's writing a song and it's me, sometimes Sebastian and Rafael as a team, but in the end, the whole band is arranging those songs, and that means each member somehow has this certain touch, on each composition, which makes that everything fluent, at least from my perspective. And within that, we still have to respect, who's doing what and doing their best, and it makes the movement from me personally, very very strong and balanced record, and you need to be balanced in everything.

I'd say it's fascinating too, because with new members a lot of bands who had been around, as well as you've made the band, a lot of bands wouldn't have new members be so involved in the process so early. But you can tell with the record on this, was that a very easy decision? Or did Sebastian and Rafael's ability and chemistry, make it very easy to have to come in and write, right away?

Steffen Kummerer: That's a very good question. I wouldn't say it was easy, because we have a certain distinctive sound within the band. But at the same time, we're looking for band members with their own touch, so to say. Sebastian has a very old way of arranging drum lines, I think it's unique. I don't know any other drummer who's working sixtuplets, Eurhythmic parts as he does, but at the same time and way, we support the compositions as they are. Pushing the record, the compositions as it is, but getting further with his knowledge and patterns. So it was the same way with Rafael and his talents into the compositions, while being the band that we are. I think either in the Omnivium, or with Cosmogenesis 10 years earlier, you can still remember, "Okay, clearly this is the same band." For me, that's very important.

Linus Klausenitzer: I mean, it's always a challenge. We want strong characters in the band, and strong musical character, personally character and strengths. So if you work together, it takes forever to finish the songs, and really has happened very rarely that a band member has come out and says, "Well this is now what I wrote, I wouldn't like to change a lot, let me know what's going on." Often, we make about 70% of a song and then bring it to the end, together. There's a lot of discussion, everybody has strong opinions, and takes a lot of time until the songs are finished. The songwriting process is very, very, very intense, but it's worth it. The good thing is, we didn't start to hate each other in those processes, (laughs), it's more like, it was just interesting to the different perspectives. And I don't know, it was more inspiring, so to say. Everyone tried to make the best songs possible, and those moments, made the song. For example, I can talk about my songs that I wrote the 70%, the other guys with their own character. I can write drum lines for example, but I cannot write how impossible to play. The process playing brings it to another level. Of course with this playing, he comes up with some ideas, and how the structure is going to be this detailed huge cake, that you can have in the end and that is very enjoyable.

And as mentioning earlier about the loss of Hannes and Christian. I don't know if you pay attention much to social media, or things that people say. It was about three or years ago when they left, and they left Necrophagist back then. Sometimes I feel they're both one in the same, and I don't know how close they really are, but when they left, they were not only incredible musicians, they wrote whole songs for the band. Did it change things for you, was it something you thought about losing key important members? How did you feel the process, and did you have any doubts going forward?

Steffen Kummerer: A very direct question. The band existed before Hannes and Chris, for all those years, and we are here after as well. They're happy, but what I mentioned earlier, we always have been a whole band writing. And it wasn't only the one guy, the two guys writing everything. It was always like a band, and I'm very proud of that. We don't have any big egos in the band, it's always changing, and that's actually what makes the album very interesting. Cosmogenesis, Omnivium, as well as Akroasis and Diluvium, they all sound like the same band, but they're different at the same time, and I'm really proud of that. We cannot repeat ourselves all the time, which also has it's course, because we have changing band members. The core of the sound always stayed the same, that's my opinion.

Linus Klausenitzer: I mean, when they left, of course it altered your mood point after Omnivium, but since I played in that lineup with Hannes and Chris for 3-4 years, I also understood the musical ideas. This long time that I had to play with Obscura live, make me understand what Steffan was just talking about, this musical roots and basically what this music is about, where could this go, and wouldn't make sense. This helped me a lot. When Steffan and me had to start the band all over again with a new lineup, that helped me a lot. Writing my first songs for the band, so that was a connecting point to me.

Talking about Hannes and Christian, they're still some of my best friends. Actually, they're not a songwriting compilation. They write very independently, in every band they have been in. Actually, Chris is going to the more Prog Metal direction right now, so it's actually very different. We're just good friends, and why they play in so many bands together.

On the new album, mentioning how balanced it was, and all the melodic tendencies that people don't think are in Death Metal, such in "Emergent Evolution." The chorus part with the melody there, and the clean vocals. I'm always so fascinating to hear your vocals, clean wise, because with all the distortion and dissonant chords and minor play, really makes a breath fresh of air, something very unique that I've shown to non-Metal heads, and they're like, " This is different!" Even they know without that knowledge. And about your clean vocals particularly, is it something that comes hard for you to do those? Not to actually do them, but more in how confident are you about it these days, playing and mixing everything together? Because I feel it's something really unique, that other people don't talk about as much.

Steffen Kummerer: That actually turned from an experiment, to being a very important part of the whole music, of the band. But we would used half of the vocals clean, half distorted vocal sounds the first time in Cosmogenesis. It was more like an homage, or to like get a different sound color. Nowadays, especially when you mention "Emergent Evolution", or "Convergence", it's a very important part of the vocal positions. It's not only like a detail you have, but with all of those clean vocal lines, are composed like an instrument. It's quite different. Usually you have a Death Metal singer, screaming, growling, or something, but with maybe a minimalistic part of melody in it. But with all of those background choirs/vocals, you give all the compositions different dimensions. And when you get into writing those kind of lyrics, and those kind of vocal lines, we need to give them a certain space. There's a song called "Ode to the Sun", on the previous record Akroasis. I remember only hearing the music without the vocals, it's sounded like, extremely reduced and it didn't work, at all. But, it was like meant to be, given all those ideas, those cleanish vocals so much space, that the whole composition then takes shape together, so it's actually a very important part these days. I'm half confident, half insecure about everything that I'm doing, but I still do what I like. I hope that answers your question.

And also the new album as well, I noticed in the last bonus track, "A Last Farewell", and "An Epilogue to Infinity", the last two tracks of the album; you have songs like "Centric Flow", "Aevum", the very epic sounding tracks, last song of the set kind of thing. This song at the end, it was very slow, very menacing, just oozing with this buildup, and I wasn't expecting that to be the last song of the album, especially "A Last Farewell" being this short instrumental, to kind of sound it off. Why was the last song a bonus track, being a short instrumental, and talk to me about placing that song last, in general. I found that really unique to place last.

Linus Klausenitzer: Actually, this is a good example for what I was talking about before. Rafael came up with the verse and the chorus of that song, and he said, "Linus, look here. I have this laying around in my computer with these ideas, but I'm not sure if this fits Obscura. What do you think?" He just shared it, and I listened to it and I fell it in love like, "Holy hell, this is amazing! It is not typical Obscura, but let me do something with it." This was his typical moment, and comes up with this immediate inspiration and you want to do something with it, I took it. Most of the arrangements I wrote the second half of the song, and I enjoyed it and put it exactly in taking my experience in Obscura, and make this into an Obscura song. I enjoyed that a lot, so actually, we have this apocalyptic theme in the album, so I wanted to have, not an English word...everything in the beginning is very calm, and then I wanted to have that very stressful ending. Kind of like a pile of ants, how do you call it? That's how I wanted to feel like. If you throw something in a pile of ants, they all run around in fucking chaos, like before the world goes down. So that was my intention with the end.

And then you have the bonus track, which is this pure instrumental, which is just supporting that idea of the album concept. After the last song, it's basically the end of the world, what do you have with these four album cycles? After the end of the world, Cosmogenesis starts again, everything starts again from scratch. You have this moment between the end, and the beginning again. So that was the basic idea, to have atmospheric. At that moment, I just got a new bass from Ibanez, which is called the Ibanez Ashula, which is a hybrid bass, with a fretless and a fretted bass. They just gave it to me, and they said, "We have this very experimental bass, and you're a guy that makes experimental stuff, take this bass and make something interesting, please." So I felt like it was the perfect opportunity. I sat down with some effects and recorded the bonus track. Which is actually, something symmetric, the main riff that I play in the bonus track, is the main riff of the first song of the album, but in halftime.

I like little puzzles and treasures like that.

Linus Klausenitzer: There are a lot of Easter eggs in this album, Steffan can tell you a lot about it, in terms of lyrics and stuff.

Steffen Kummerer: I'm trying to add my share of being emerged to the whole pile of ideas. The bonus track, "A Last Farewell", it was dealing with the main theme of the first song. Putting out the music first, "A Last Farewell", which is actually a line from the chorus of the first song (laughs).

We Metal nerds appreciate this very, very much. It's very important. Speaking about the bass, everyone knows your ability, your talent, production, and everything you do when you play. And not just playing bass, but as you said, everyone writes. Writing whole songs, and you're very much a part of that process. These days I believe, how it was back in the day with Cliff Burton, Les Claypool as such with bass players, I think there's a much more appreciation for bass players. Especially in Metal, by far. What are your songwriting abilities like, and as a bass players, are some of those themes true about how bass players write? How do you see a song, when you attempt to write it?

Linus Klausenitzer: That's hard to say. I don't know how I see songs, so it's hard for me to prepare, so I can explain it in an abstract way. When it's time to write a song, I do it totally different for me, for the rest of the band, I always need one basic idea. From that, I write some guitar parts and some drum parts, that I think sound a little bit like Obscura, I don't know. I try to prepare it as much as I can, but of course while I'm writing, I realize, "Okay, this is probably something guitarists will never play with." So I go to the guitarists and ask them, what can we do with this? I think probably, this is not playable, right? And very often actually (laughs), they say, well whatever, I just practice it a bit and it'll work out. Like, "Ten Sepiroth", the first song that we play tonight. For example in the beginning, which is very horrible to play (laughs). Of course, I don't write like a guitarist, but that is something I guess, actually a benefit. Because, every time you create something new, and conventional, it's something good, so it's a bonus. Often I think, maybe studying music is never a good thing, because if you have one character, and have to work in a certain framework, you can't work on another character more easily, hard to explain.

I can see that. Jon Schaffer of Iced Earth has said famously, he's a drummer trapped in a guitar player's body, so people have those tendencies, and the way he plays rhythm, you can totally hear it. Also, with how far Metal goes these days, in terms of when we first heard Slayer, "Nothing can beat that!" We heard Suffocation, still the best (in my humble opinion). You go over and over, and I think from 2004 to now, we have had bands like Augury, Obscura, Anata, and bands who just take this level of music and ability, this Death Metal that is very abstract and very, very hard to read, listening wise. What's it been like for you to see this emergent change? In the level of ability, technicality and songwriting, of this I would say, high level Death Metal that we're so fortunate to have.

Steffen Kummerer: Actually, a very unique question, because in my opinion, these days especially since you mentioned 2004-2005, it's way easier to create music that you actually can't play. Because you edit so much out of guitar lines, or bass lines, drum lines, actually another human being was recording. These days, the whole focus is way more on the live setting. That actually proves, if a band is working or not. And playing live, is something barely any of the bands do these days. Maybe local, but from my perspective, less and less bands start to tour, to full tour cycles. At least in Europe where we come from, there's barely anyone, maybe a couple of bands here and there. But changes, the whole bands in my opinion, is simply that it's less original bands. Linus mentioned, or referred to "Ten Sepiroth", being written as a bassist, writing parts that are not written by a guitarist, therefore it's getting a little bit more original. I have the problem, many bands these days sound the same, because they use the same equipment, not the same amplifiers, but the same preset. They don't try even to make it original. Sometimes, mistakes it original. It's like an old phrase, but I would say things that are not exactly sharp, and feeling like a band having their own feeling, and this is something that I miss sometimes, these days.

Augury for example, they played ten years ago, fantastic! We had a tour with them, with The Black Dahlia Murder in 2010, I remember. Fantastic band, totally unique sound! More or less, you can guess where they come from, but they still have their very own identity, and this is something I miss these days. A couple of bands that still stand out, for example Vektor, I absolutely admire.

They played two years ago in LA, they were unbelievable.

Steffen Kummerer: Fantastic band! They have their unique sound. You hear one song, and you immediately think it's a fantastic band. But they combine it with their production skills, and if they are more bands getting their own way, I think it would be more interesting.

Linus Klausenitzer: It's always like that. Actually, if you talk to bands that make interesting music, and I don't know, the main songwriter and talk to them, most of the time they say, "Yeah, I only listen to 20 bands, I don't give a shit about the rest!" And then you have on the other hand, those million of bands that have this getting educated by online lessons on YouTube, or whatever, so they have this amazing huge line of online lessons. But they all go the same way, because it's always the same. I really think sometimes, limitation makes, and helps you to be more great. Because your inspiration in music, comes from other fields than music, actually.

Steffen Kummerer: Like my former guitarist, Christian. He had a problem with one of his fingers, a nerve problem. He simply didn't stop, he just started to tap the whole thing, which gave all the songs a certain different touch. That's exactly what he said, with limitation and vice versa, like Celtic Frost or Venom. They're definitely not the most technical bands on this planet, but they have their own sound, which definitely marks them as unique bands. Now we lost a million fans (everyone laughs).

And it's funny that you mention as well. I talked to Archspire a couple of years, with Jared (Smith) the bass player. I asked him what's the limit for you with technicality, and they said we want to play 400 BPM, we want to break the barrier. And I love that approach and how they do it, how professional and technical they are. A lot of people of course think, "The more technical? Oh, it's just soulless. They're just showing off!" Are there times that the band is ever aware, of a time where you've written a song and said, "You know what? This feels a little too technical." Do you ever have those conversations with yourself, or with the band, what you feel a good limit of Technical Death Metal, for your band should be?

Steffen Kummerer: Actually, many times. During the recording processes, writing processes, numerous times. Because for me, it's very important that we have memorable material. And basically the filter to have a certain structure in the band. I also write the vocal lines of it, so somehow I have to figure if they can fit within a song. Somehow need a certain structure to build, like a dynamic. I'm only talking about vocals for it, and therefore you need certain arrangements. And I seem to want to have the combination of very technical and approaching music, at the same time, the more flare, so to say. It doesn't matter if it's a theme or it's vocal phrases, or bass lines. One of the best examples is the song "Akroasis." Where, we have a certain theme, as a musical theme, it's taking over by all instruments. I guess the bridge, whatever you call it or something, it's the bass playing that exact line. This is something that is stuck in your head, but the whole song is really complicated, if you really break it down and analyze it. And this is somehow the combination I'm really looking for. Therefore, it happens sometimes the feeling of being able to play after two months without rehearsing, but it's still something of value for the listener.

Linus Klausenitzer: I totally agree. Musically, the bassist needs to be dynamic. That's the part if you have something technical. On the other hand, you need something that makes you feel relaxed, otherwise it's just chaos. But on the other hand, with technicality and I understand with what Archspire means. It's so hard to generate new music, and now we have those abilities to, with the skills from the instrument, to make music that sounds different. That's the idea behind it, that the virtuosity is making. It's more easy to make complex rhythmical or harmonic structures, and fast playing, you can make more easily new things. That's just fact, and it's not about showing off, it's just a way of writing songs, that's the idea behind it. So it's not people sometimes misinterpret showoffs, but just a way to increase dynamic. The things that I learned with bass guitar, I always heard those words like, less is more, and I hate those words. Because if Richard Wagner would have said, how cool would his music be?

After this tour, and the year being over in three months, what is next for the band? The album came out just a few months ago, but for North America it's their first time seeing the band. It won't be another seven years until the band comes back, I presume. Are there any works of coming back, early next year? Does the band want to do more twice a year cycle, once a year? What would the band like to do in 2019, on a regular basis of touring, particularly in North America?

Steffen Kummerer: We definitely want to play another North American tour. Mentioning earlier our Visa process, as a foreign band. If you go through the process, the Visas last one year, so you plan everything out for it to maybe two or three tours, to play North America. But what we do, aside from our other schedules, like playing Europe, playing Japan, playing Australia, we need to work on the second North American tour. All the surprises, when it will happen, and with which band will happen, and either headliner or support (laughs).

Linus Klausenitzer: And also we plan, to have two lineup changes very soon, and to have Visa problems again, so...(laughs).

Steffen Kummerer: I'm ahead of you, man!

Linus Klausenitzer: (laughs).

Would there be news in a few months of a tour? Is that confirmed at all, or is it something you're working on right now for sure, the next North American tour?

Steffen Kummerer: We can say that we'll come back to North America in 2019. But, what exactly and which setting, that's actually in the making right now. It'll be a surprise.

Kind of a loaded question, but I feel an important one. We talked about amazing Death Metal is these days, in terms of ability and songwriting as well. And for the two longest tenured members in the band now, the journey for Metal is so vast, unique, dark, and happy, for a lot of people. I like to ask the both of you, a two part question: What started your journey as a Metal musician, as a fan. And the second question is: Where did you feel that extreme Metal is what you really wanted to do? Was there a point in your life, during an album, a tour, that you knew that this was for you? The first question: What got you to this point? And the second question: What made you an extreme Metal person?

Steffen Kummerer: The answer for the first question: Human, actually. The album from Death, definitely brought me to the whole, more extreme Metal scene. And simply opened my eyes on how to arrange songs, and how to combine different fields of music. And at the same time, trying to make timeless music. But actually, it made me be adapt for the long term, the idea of forming my own band, and pushing as long as possible, as far as possible. Obscura is the first band I ever played with, and it will be the last band.

Linus Klausenitzer: I tried a lot of things in my life. What I said before, music is about intensity and it always combines with feeling. So for me, Death Metal makes the most sense, because it's a genre that combines the most intense music that there is, in the world. So it is for me the most intense, extreme music! So that's why I love to do it. I play in a band where I can express myself, even on a bass, and also dynamic with cheesy clean parts (smiles). So it has everything intensive music needs to have, so both extremes. That's why I found that very fascinating. Obscura is my thing.

In about a month or so, Suffocation will be playing, with Frank's (Mullen) last tour. And I've seen them 20 times, and it'll be 21 and 22 when they come here, a long long time. I think they're the best live band I've ever seen in my life, and the band that's influenced everyone as well. Do you have any memories or anything about Suffocation at all?

Steffen Kummerer: Actually, in 2006, we played our very first International tour with Suffocation in Europe, with Frank but without the guitarist who lost his passport. So it's definitely memorable, and the guys were really actually, very very nice. And for being a new touring band, touring with such at that time, very, very big act, was one of a kind. We were very, very grateful, that they opened up so many doors for us. I'm actually very thankful for the band. And actually, Frank Mullen is leaving the band, and I hope they still continue.

Any last words, being the last day of the tour? We're looking forward to 2019, any words to these dedicated Obscura fans who never forgot the band?

Steffen Kummerer: Thank you for making the Diluvium North American Tour, a fantastic experience. It's completely been something of a turnout, than all of us expected. But all of the bands on the bill, are simply overwhelmed by the response. As a last show in LA, this will be sold out tonight. This is already the biggest show of the whole tour, so thank you very much for everyone.

Linus Klausenitzer: It's the same feeling. It's unbelievable to come to the US, and see how passionate people are here, how emotional people are, how crazy they go in the crowds. And to see with personal talks, how the value of our music is, they know about the value of it. They give us a lot of support, and it gives us, like you have those moments when you sit at home, and you are alone and you ask yourself what you're doing for it. Those are the moments where people show you why you do it. People here are so much passionate, there's no doubt we will come again. We love North America.