A Captivating Discussion and Interview with Kyle Rasmussen of Vitriol

February 4th, 2020

One of the continuous great joys you experience in music, is immediately clicking to a new band that just astonished you with their talent, ability, and well-being.  This was my first thought seeing Vitriol open for Cattle Decapitation and Atheist at the Glasshouse in December of 2019, just a few months ago.  Any excuse to see Vader of course, I was thrilled to hear Vitriol would also be opening this tour.  I had the utmost honour to interview guitarist/vocalist and founder of Vitriol, Kyle Rasmussen after their set on the first day of this tour in San Diego at the Brick by Brick. And throughout all the interviews I’ve been able to do the past 7 years, this was arguably one of the most insightful and enlightening conversations I’ve ever had.  We discussed how Vitriol formed, discussing uncomfortability within the feelings of many Metalheads, breaking down Deathspell Omega and other bands of the like, his time at NAMM 2020, and much, much more.  This was an incredible pleasure to be a part of, I hope all of you enjoy this fantastic read, that Kyle Rasmussen himself made certainly possible.

(The audio portion of the interview can be found at the bottom of the page)

Metalchondria:  This is Jason Williams of Metalchondria, here with Kyle Rasmussen of Vitriol, great to meet you!  And normally when I do interviews, it's bands that I usually know about, so this is more of an introduction for me, and as well for everyone else too. I saw you guys at the Glass House show with Cattle Decapitation, and I got to interview Kelly Shaefer of Atheist, who's just a wonderful human being.  We're talking about new bands, and he was mentioning Vitriol. He was raving about you, and raving about your drummer Scott (Walker) and I was like, “Okay!”  Then I hear band and the music, just right away popped out.  Just the technicality, the dissonance, and this abstract feel of it, so it's an introduction for me, too.  So, I'm told you pretty much write the majority of the music, so tell me a little bit about you musically, the band and how it formed?

Kyle Rasmussen:  Well, I guess a good place to start, the stuff that jumped out, was more of the disjointed elements, the dissonance.  And for me, there was a lot of stuff happening in Death Metal, and a lot of Black Metal happening, in the late odds you know, with Deathspell (Omega), and coming into the fray, into more of bleeding outside of the confines of Black Metal interest, you know?  So for me, that shit hit hard and then of course, I've always been a fan of Gorguts and Ulcerate, and stuff like that, for me.  But I'm also a fan of really traditional, Death Metal, you know?  So, I wanted to be able to see if I could try to focus that, that chaos, in a more controlled way, dare say conventional song structures.  To give a little bit more of a contagious

Those are conventional structures?  Don't seem like it.

(Laughs) Well, in terms of, there's choruses, and verses, it's not just like riff after riff after riff, you know what I'm saying?  I try to not do that.

But we like it though, it's a good thing.

I mean, I like the songs to have more of an anatomy to them.  So that was the thing, as I wanted it to be, how could I make it sound like a panic attack, but also be infectious, and make you want to listen to it more and more?  

That's a great description!

We joke about, we prefer Vitriol as "sonic waterboarding", cause it's like, we want to get the listener to the point where they're like, "It's too much." And then we bring them up for air, you know?  So, like the whole overwhelming experience in the band, is very intentional.  Not only with the music, but how it was produced, you know?  It should feel very claustrophobic, it should feel a little dirty, it should feel a little scary, and it doesn't, might not be Death Metal, it's my opinion (smiles).

And speaking of that, I talked with Ross the Impaler, who does merch with Cattle and everything else with them, seeing you guys play right now. And there was something that I'd noticed, and I asked him, and he said, "You were more right. than you can be wrong about it."  There's this like, aggressive anger, violence, say the album name, To Bathe in the Throat of Cowardice, the song names "The Rope Calls you Brother", those aren't shock value, that's real legit, anger.  And its positive anger, kind of hard to describe.  It's not just how hard the band plays or how crazy the notes are, but there's this aura of anger.  It's how people think, "Metal's angry!"  Not like that, it's just something--

It's catharsis.

It is!  Tell me about that, because this time around, I really noticed it.

Well, I think for me, I realized I was in a unique position to make, the Death Metal I wanted to hear.  I got really attached, I fell in love with Death Metal, in the truest sense of the word.  It reflected a life that I "knew", you know what I mean?  Where a lot of the other genres of music that were available to me, didn't really reflect my truth, you know?  What I was exposed to, how relentless and unforgiving the world can be, right?  And there are a lot of people who grow up with positions like that, and that's just their truth.  That's not what they want it to be, it's not like we just want to be mad, angry, evil dudes, you know what I mean?  You learn the world that you're born into, and you need to talk about it.  And when you see, when you endure a lot of trauma, that's hard for people who haven't, to talk about, it makes them uncomfortable, right?  So, a lot of people hear Vitriol and they're like, "Whoa!  These guys are just really trying to go over the top."  And what I'd say to those people is, "That's fine.  That's a real connection you have, but we are not for you."  The people that are music is for, they connect immediately with it.  They hear it, you know.  That was my intention, was to do respect, to see them.  Like I know how fucking low this goes, I know how deep-- 

We all do, for sure!

How deep this shit goes; you know what I mean?  I'm not going to do the disservice to pull punches of how hard this place can be, because I want to make some other fans fucking comfortable.  Because they want to hear something a little more musical, with a little less attitude.  It's like, there are plenty of bands doing that, that's why Vitriol's started, because I wanted to build a band that would, pay respect to the 13 year old kid who fell in love with it, you know what I mean?  We'll also do in service, to what the adult Kyle wants.

And to your point, I love being uncomfortable; in music, in life.  In even movies, you want to shun away, but then you see something, it just clicks and it's dark, you just want to go a little further with it, and I feel that way with the band as well.  You started the band around 2013, I believe?

Yep!

So, the first album came out in September (2019), it's been like six years.  How old is the music on this album, and why did it take so long to finally a full-length album?

Great question, a lot of answers.  For me, a lot of it was, the first album feels really developed to me, because we basically wrote...in interviews, we've had a lot of people ask us like, this sounds like a fresh album, but a junior album, a third album or something, in terms of like how put together it is.  And I'm like, it sort of is (laughs), you know what I mean?  Adam (Roethlisberger, bassist/vocalist) describes it well, he says we develop the band outside of the eyes of the public, you know what I mean?  Rather than releasing the material that I just thought didn't reflect what I needed Vitriol to be, in terms of quality, and attitude, intention, we canned a lot of material.  There were also a lot of member limitations, like, it was just Adam and I, for the most part, for a long time.  And we intermittently have other drummers:  Simon Dorfman, who now plays in Drawn and Quartered, was our original drummer.  Just life stuff, you know.  A lot of life happened, we all tried to quit music.  It's a long road, and the hardest part for me, was just making music that I thought was good enough.  I finally did, it took six years, so it is what it is (laughs).

So, Mike (Ashton, guitars) is the newest member of the band.

Yes sir.

And so you recorded the album, this is yourself.  So, as someone who plays guitar, and who is really big into theory, concepts with notes, melodies, structures and everything, what was it like making that album, doing every guitar part on the left side, the right side.  It's weird, to look in the mirror and, that's you playing with the other person?  Or is it just you doing two parts?  People know, you can't listen to Metal with one headphone, because you're missing what the other guitar is doing over there.

Yes, yes.  That was I would say, one of the most more intimating than trying how to learn to solo, in my early years as a player was, trying to learn how to learn complimentary guitar parts.  Because I came from a two-guitar player band, when I was younger in my teens.  I was just the chops guy, I mean I'd write stuff, but the stuff I write, he would write his own parts too, and his riffs, he would show me the parts.  So, I just never flexed that muscle, you know?  And it was, I written three Vitriol songs that ended up coming out of that EP.  We have an old EP that we don't promote, called Antichrist EP.

That's actually a very tame name for the band.

Yeah!  It seems a little "on the nose", in retrospect 2020, regardless.  When I recorded that album, I really just worked by trial and error, like hunting and peck in the studio, you know?  Exploring the other riffs on loop, and just kind of learn the hard way.  And then you, you just start to develop; I mean, I don't know anything about theory, so I'll just do things like--

(Shocked) That's so surprising.

Yeah (laughs), sorry.

No no, Kelly Shaefer said, and I'm sorry to interrupt, said the same thing.  I hear "Piece of Time", and "The Parting of a Neck"...that's why I'm asking these questions, they're so important (to know).

It was just a lot of labor, you know.  I compare people that don't know theory, to those that know theory, a really good analogy for me is, hunt-and-peck typists, and home row typists.  I think you call eventually get the same thing, but it's going to take much longer for the hunt-and-peck guy (laughs).  Because he's not going to know, "Oh, it's just a 5th!  It's just a minor this, oh it's a triad."  You're going to be like, "Oh what does one fret up sound like? (Makes sound of note being played humorously).  No, what does the next fret up sound like?  (Laughs and makes same sound of note being played humorously) Okay, that's cool, I guess!"  That's pretty much; so, you think of that and then you listen to our album, you might be like, that's insane, and I'd agree, it was a nightmare.  That's why it took 6 years (laughs).

That makes real sense.  And the question you mentioned earlier about my Ulcerate shirt, I'm on this little project with my site, just for me.  I was telling Adam that I've been into Extreme Metal since 2002.  And I've heard Augury, when Concealed first came out, I heard Anata when Under A Stone with No Inscription came out, and Lykathea Aflame, that level of music, it's abstract and different.  I talked to Simon Girard of Beyond Creation, and he said when he makes his music, it's like colours and shapes, and dream ideas.  I'm so fascinated by that kind of style, and I definitely put Vitriol in this category.  How do you construct music?  What do you see, and literal thoughts and emotions, when you see what's in front of you, and then it comes out as that?  Like Deathspell Omega for example too.  How do you do it?

I think that, it depends on your approach to your instrument.  If your approaching your instrument as an athlete, like a puzzle to be solved, it's hard to get to an intuitive place of songwriting.  If you pick up the guitar as a way of like, I know people hate when you use the word "art", they think it's hokey.  But, if you approach like a way to communicate an extensional truth, to another person, right?  Because notes make people feel things, right?  And a lot of Metal dudes don't like to talk about "feelings" (laughs).  But it's the truth!  I mean, we have tons of them, we wouldn't be so angry if we weren't.  So, once you can understand, you really start using--and I listen to a lot of Stevie Ray Vaughn, I listen to Eric Johnson, I mean I like a lot just the great players.

What do you think of Mark Knopfler from Dire Straits, that kind of guitar playing too, right?

Yes, exactly!  I fell in love with Death Metal as an artistic medium, I didn't fall in love with it as a sport, you know what I mean?  And that goes back to my original relationship with the genre, which was like, it stirred a fire in me that was already there, it was speaking back.  So, when I think about music, I think when you develop a literacy with an instrument, you start learning that it's really no different than a verbal language.  It's just better, right?  Because we have our own relationships with words, but we seem to respond to notes pretty similarly.  Universally, everyone feels the same way.  They'll feel sad when they hear a Blues solo, or a minor chord, you know what I mean?  They'll feel uplifted when they hear a major progression, you know what I mean?  That's just an A (chord).  So, you can really cut through the shit, and that's why music is so important.  And for me, when I started playing guitar, I think my strength was being able to associate certain sounds, notes, or bends or whatever, with an emotion, because I'm a really sensitive guy, you know?  And you can see when I play, they'll either praise me, or shame me for being so engaged with my music.  All I can say is like, you can love it or hate it, but it's honest, you know?  I think most people have a hard time with it, because they think I'm just a ham, just putting on a show.  But it's like no, I just feel it, and it's okay if you don't, you know?  Most people that would think that was odd, don't.  

 I would say my writing process is really about, first finding what it is that I want to say, like what kind of experience am I trying to implant into another person or share with another person.  And then I try to find the words musically to say it, and sometimes it's just a lot of painful trial and error.  Is the best way to say this, slow and hard, or is the best way to say this fast and hectic, urgent?  So, you just try to be true to yourself, what you're trying to say, and what the instruments telling when you're fucking around on it, and it'll start kind to hum, you know?  You'll get that part and you're like, "That's what I'm trying to say."  It's like constructing to write a sentence, as a writer, you know what I mean?  "How can I arrange this story, how can I bring someone up and then let them drop, how can I make them feel that way?"  With blastbeats, runs, etc.

I talked to Luc Lemay (Gorguts) a few years ago, an unbelievably brilliant mind and even said too, when they made Obscura, "Don't look at what I'm playing, just hear the sounds and go from there."  That's one of those "rules" they do, "Oh it looks cool?  No, we don't want it to look cool, we want to whatever you hear the first thing, don't even worry about how it looks, feel how it sounds."

It's all about that.  I mean, the live show, everything else about your band should (pauses).  Look, the music is not all that matters, but the music is absolutely the most important thing that matters.  And what people need to realize that, everything surrounding the music, everything you do, effects how people relate to your music, right?  So, the authenticity of your live performance, that...if you want your fans to only engage with your band on a musical level, then just make albums, don't go on tour.  If you're trying to present a new dimension of your work to your fans, because now you have a physical medium, now not only you can communicate sonically, but you can communicate visually to people, you can punctuate, you can elaborate on parts, you know?  Umm, I completely lost my train of thought (laughs).  I was saying, how important it is to perform well, and even things down to your merch and stuff.  Don't just throw generic art on your shit, man.  Throw something that speaks your truth, or reflects what your band is about, and if you don't have a thing that your band is about, get one (smiles).  And people will like it a lot more. 

Be original, ultimately.

Yeah, or just be yourself.  That's the most important thing.  If you're worrying about being different, you're going to be a whackadoo try hard band, just trying to whacky because you don't why other people are whacky.  But if you're honest with yourself, and your interests, you just kinda, inevitability going to be original, because we just are.  We're just original people, not to get all snowflakey, but we are.  We all have unique set of experiences, we've all very different relationships with art and music, so if we're capable of being introspective and honest about what we like.  The music we make, if you make it fearlessly, it'll almost always be original, just by dent and doing it honestly.  But it's hard to do, because people are going to tell you it sucks, a lot!  Because people don't know something's good if it's different, until the right people say it's good, you know what I mean?  And that was another reason the band took so long to take off.  We weren't all that popular in our hometown of Portland.  Portland's very much...welcomes the Old-School Death Metal revival thing, you know?  Which is great, I love that stuff, but they weren't really entertaining the crazy blastbeats and fast, they're all like, "This just Tech-Death, or whatever!"  They wrote it off as Tech-Death, and I'm like okay, that's fine, whatever.

The description's not even close.

(Laughs) Yeah, you know, people are going to see what they see, until the world defines you, for you.

Better late than never, right, at some point?

Yeah, whatever man!  It's a long hard road, when you want to do shit your own way, you know?  It's worth it, but it's fucking hard, it's a lot easy to just pander, get people what they want, and skyrocket, you know?  Stay in the fucking kitchen, regardless of how how it is, and usually that pays off.

I agree with that.  And another question about that genre we talked about, like Ulcerate, Deathspell Omega, as a guitar player, songwriter, and a love for that kind of music that we talked about, tell me from your point of view:  Kind of like an athlete appreciating another athlete, a team appreciating another team, what does Deathspell Omega do?  Again, me as a whatever guitar player, just trying to learn what they do, study, and pinpoint things.  When you hear them, what do they do so differently, from maybe someone that doesn't have the experience that we do, but they right away, this is different from other stuff I've heard?

With that band I mean, because the essence of that band is preserved through all of their work, so it can't, I feel superficial for me to try to pin it to, something that they do musically.  It's the sincerity and the devotion of that band, that really pulled me over.  And I think that, their approach gave me permission to make my music, very very seriously.  I grew up around Hardcore kids, I grew around kids that thought this shit was for D&D nerds and shit, you know what I mean?  Where you're just a fucking nerd.

The "Bros" at Metalcore shows, yeah!  The ones who have no feelings.

Yeah (laughs), umm, jesus, what was that, fuck, sorry.  I smoked right before (laughs).

All good (laughs)!

Deathspell, that's right!  So, it was always, Death Metal was always very important to me, and then I started getting into Black Metal, 1349, Hellfire.

That's their best one!  "Nathicana", I mean, that's my favorite one of theirs, by far and large.  

I always like Marduk, because they're the Death Metal/Black Metal, right?  They just beat ass.

Both older and newer Marduk?

I do, yeah.

I like their newer era.  since Legion (I mean't Mortuus) came in, the new vocal approach, for me at least, I get that.  Panzer Division Marduk, it's just blasting for 32 minutes straight.

Yes, I mean Mortuus, is on a league of his own, in terms of being able to emote, being able to just, I mean he sounds like, 7 different people, you know what I mean? (laughs) He's a maniac!  He sounds schizophrenic, and that's exactly what especially is the kind of the relentless one-dimensionality of the music, like intentionally, the music of that band.  Just that kind of psychotic.

With "Accuser/Opposer" (Completely blanked, my favorite song of theirs, sorry Marduk), with A.A. (Nemteanga of Primordial, I was quite fascinated with this conversation, I blanked), the dual vocal song.  That style, insane style that he has.

That's great.  And I love that shit, I love bands like Bethlehem, Darkened Nocturn Slaughtercult, the bands that have you know, I just want to sound like someone is, you have your arm in the trash compactor, that's what I want to fucking hear.

So, when you scream on stage, that's what you're doing?  I see that, and you just do it, again, like right after!

Just fucking, just, scream like you mean it!  I mean really, that's why we're screaming.  If you don't mean it, then just sing!  You should really...if I don't see spit from the mouth (laughs).

Travis Ryan does that easy.

You should really lean into it (laughs).  But with Deathspell, I went on a tangent with Black Metal bands.  When Deathspell came out, that was really...it was Fas (- Ite, Maledicti, in Ingem Aeternum) that roped me in.

That's the one!

I hope I'm pronouncing that one half correctly.  But, there's a reason that band scared people, and it wasn't just because they were "spooky."  "Oh, they had dark production!"  No, it was...there was a sincerity that was mysterious to people, that they were like, "Oh fuck!  This is some real ass shit!"  You know what I mean? (laughs) And it is.

In "The Shrine of Mad Laughter", there's about 2 and half minutes of music, and then a minute of that little instrumental, then that crazy chord comes up on delay, I never anything like that, ambiance.  And for even for 3 minutes at a time?  It shows up later in the album, too, "A Chore for the Lost", as well.

That band is just, they're a band that understands that music is a tool.  And you can hear that with bands, like the bands you spoke about earlier, even bands like 1349, they understand that.  And once you know the rules, so to speak, and these guys know the rules, because they've been playing for a long time, you know how to tastefully break them, to send your specific message, you know?  And they're a band that just, masters of the craft of what they do.  If they're a band that is one of those things where you don't like an album, it's because you just don't like what they had to say, but they fucking said it, you know what I mean?`  They didn't fail in their endeavor to achieve whatever they're trying to achieve.  You might not like it, because they do whatever the fuck they want but you know, I don't love every Deathspell record.

What did you think of the latest one (The Furnaces of Palingenesia)?

I really liked it!

I think that's the first time they figured, "Oh, let's make our song structures a little cleaner!"  They're actually getting better, as songwriters, they're scary good.

The Synarchy of Molten Bones, I've loved.  I thought that album was incredible, so frantic and dense, claustrophobic.  I get a hard time, because Paracletus, I was not a big fan.  And I know that was a lot of peoples' big album.

That was the album where I think, more of the public and people online, were finally getting to know who they were.  It was a really great album, I'd agree it's not their best one, but still really good.

Yeah!  They've done nothing objectively wrong; you know. (laughs) Not that I'd be the person to be able to say that anyway.  I don't know, it's one of those things were, a band is always in a tough spot when they're coming off an album like, I fucking adore.  Fas was...

I think I heard that 6 months after it came out, me and my brother were driving just like, we didn't talk for an hour after the album, we didn't know what to do.

I did so many practices, early Vitriol practices, driving from Seattle to Portland, on dreary, grey, wooden highway, just listening to the second and third Deathspell full lengths.  Just fucking on repeat, just over, and over, and over again.  It's not just that the music is inspiring, it's the approach itself, is inspiring.

Hard to hear in places, to your point, it's not going to be uncomfortable.  When are they comfortable, to what we talked about earlier?

If you're seeking for ease of access, and comfortability, these bands are not for you.  So, there are people that don't understand.  You don't have to like it, but there are people that critique it as though, they're failing to do something like, "Oh, the mix is just bad!"  That's a popular meme about Black Metal, right?  "Oh, Black Metal musicians don't like good tone!"  It's like, no, you just don't get it.

That's not what they're going for.

Their values are not your values, what they're trying to communicate, is not what you're trying to communicate.  So, it's like, the problem is the false similarities between other Metal genres and Black Metal.  They conflate the two things, like they think, "With my Technical Death Metal band, I should hear all the notes, so therefore, I should be able to hear all the notes of Black Metal bands."  No, no!  Do you want peanut butter on your spaghetti, just because you like it on a jelly bread sandwich?  No!  Things are different, homey.  You just have to wake up to that.

I get that.  That's fascinating!  Adam mentioned about the music as well, that he said you write about 95% or so, this is a basically I'd say, Jon Schaffer, Dave Mustaine, (Chuck RIP) Schuldiner.  That one person, they are the band in that kind of way.  With that being said in terms of writing material, since you write the heavy majority of it, they see your vision, I'm assuming, and they love it and go with it.  

Not always (laughs).

No?  Ahh okay.  I'm more curious about the bands where the other members write very little, so how do they impact your songwriting, and in terms of what you want to do?  How are much they involved, even with suggestions or so?

So, our formula that we've worked out, that's worked pretty well is, I'll construct an entire song, with the riffs, the basically, whatever you're hearing coming from your left speaker, is the blueprint of the song, that's the first line of riffs that I write.  I write a whole song without doing the second riffs.  And then, that's when Adam will check it out, listen to it, sometimes he'll have...usually Adam's input will come when everything's done, and they'll be like, he's good at catching parts to punctuate parts, where the guitar will drop out in a section here, and then it'll go to half-speed.  We have that moment in "Victim", where it's like (sings out part the song), that used to be not full speed, that was his contribution.  So, he kind of shapes some tempos, but no one else writes melodic content, no one writes riffs or parts.  And then, Scott will write just all of his drum parts to my riffs, and Adam will write his bass riffs to my riffs, and then that's it!  I write all the lyrics, and that's the formula.  I basically write everything, and the other guys layer their stuff on it, but you know, that'll likely change.  We also have Mike now, who is an extremely guitar player and songwriter, so I'm really eager to put our heads together on it.  There won't be necessarily letting...Vitriol is a specific, and it'll continue to be that thing.  I love the idea of including everyone, so long (pauses), as that entity is captured still, and that's hard to do in a heavily democratic band.  Whenever everyone's deluding a singular idea, and that's not to say that a lot of democratic bands aren't amazing, that work well together and build off each other, that's great.  It's just now how this band has worked out.  And also, it has a lot to do with the fact that, this band was built in solitude.  Like I said, it was just Adam and I for a long time.  And a lot of these songs were written when I wasn't even talking to Adam, you know what I mean? I really don't have much of a choice at the end of the day, I didn't even have a band when we wrote the album.

We talked in terms of the riff structure, "I Drown Nightly", around the middle part right before the break/slow part, you're doing this really high chord and notes, that's the kind of stuff that I really notice.  So again, you're in charge of that?  And they'll have suggestions of, shaping the tempo, and potential emotion of other parts in time signatures, not the riffs themselves?

Sure, yes.  I'm trying to think of an instance where (pauses).  I'm trying to think of an instance where, I mean, riffs change.  I'm such a fucking neurotic maniac when it comes to writing riffs, that they're usually satisfied with it, 17 iterations before I'm done with it, you know what I mean?  I don't really give them much of a chance, because I'm such a... It’s not being able to contribute, it's just me, you know, it just seems to work well, the formula.  I like it, they like having a reliable way to structure the songs.  But I do think having Mike, is going to open up a lot of creative opportunities, for inter playing the two guitars.  Because that's the hardest thing, I think the most charm about two guitar parts, is having the minds of two guitar players, right?  So, I want Mike's parts to ideally, to be his parts, you know what I mean?  So, I'd like to just show him my riff, and be like, "What would you do against this riff?"  And then have him, that way I'm still kind of laying the foundation of the structure of the song, and he can kind of just put his flavor and colour on it, like the other guys do.  So, it's still a conversation, because so much of it is, I don't write out any of the drums, I don't conceive of any of it.  You know, a lot of guys do that.  They'll like superior drummer stuff out, show it to their drummer and they'll learn it, I don't do any of that shit.  I just give to a click to Scott, and he just writes shit on his electric kit, I don't put Adam on a lease at all, he comes up with his own crazy ass shit.  I honestly have a hard time seeing it is me, writing most of the music, it's just me kind of like writing the script, right?  And there's also filmographers, and directors, actors.

You have the majority of the parts, but they have other parts that contribute as well?

Yeah!  I'm just the writer/director, I can't do everything.  So, it's not like, it's not a position of control, necessarily, ego, or anything.  It's just about contributing the best way they can, and these guys aren't doing anything less insane than I am, you know?  I just have to come up with the script, the best way to put it.

A few more questions and thank you for your time.  I was talking to Adam earlier after your set, you're going to on tour with Krisiun coming up, and something in the Fall.  What would like the band like to do?  Being on that Cattle package was great for the band.  I was there, opening band, ton of people were already there, I'm sure it was like that for the majority of the tour, as well.  So that kind of recency, exposure, people saw you only barely a month and a half ago.  To kind of roll with that, what would you like the band to do in 2020?

Oh man, I mean, certainly you know, hopefully working on our way up the positioning, hopefully not more openers for US next time we come to the US.  Our fans that work later jobs, might be able to see us (laughs), which will be great.  But we're doing, what can I say we're doing?  We're doing Krisiun, we are going to over in the summer, and do some outdoor fests, some of the big fests are out there in Europe, over the summer.  And we're trying to figure out something else, in between.  But I think, we're going to take a couple of months off, and I'm going to...it sounds weird to say it, because I'm, the album just came out. and I was feeling very creatively exhausted.  But I'm actually eager to start writing new material, I'm just trying to fit that in, you know?  Hopefully (pauses), it's hard man, it's hard to answer those questions, when you've really, not to sound hokey or falsely modest, but you've already kind of achieved more than you really thought you were going to so.

Why not take it higher?

Yeah, for sure.  It's just taking, at this rate, I'm happy to just take the opportunities as they come, and just try to make the best decisions, as they come, you know?  And I'm definitely, it's not that I'm in ambitious by any means, I'm just very grateful also, for where we're at, so I'm not in a rush. (Fan says hi to Kyle and shakes his hand) See you later, man.  I'm just happy to be touring with legends that I'm a fucking fan of, man.  I grew up going to Vader.  Vader's one of my first Death Metal shows.

It's my favorite band, next to Suffocation and Megadeth.  That's my favorite band.

They're incredible, I'm just such a huge fan.  Nile and Hate Eternal are just like, just colossal bands for me.  So, this is just like the ultimate reward, for dedicating my life to extreme music, you know? (laughs) Just able, even not playing these shows, it would be an amazing opportunity to go on these tours, and meet these guys, and learn from them.  I'm just really enjoying it, I'm hoping, I'd like to see more of the world.  I'd like to get outside of just Europe, and the states as soon as possible.  I'd love to go to, you know, places like Japan, Australia, our friends in Cattle are going over there.

With Revocation, yeah!

Indonesia would be awesome, stuff like that.  So, that time will come, when they want us.  They'll let us know, or our booking agency will (laughs).  

And my last question, you were at NAMM!  You played at NAMM.

Yes yes, I did (smiles).

 And it's something that people would be, "Oh, you have to have a name!  You have to own 50 guitars!"  It's great to see Death Metal being able to, a Death Metal playing at NAMM, comfortably and everything.  What was it like for you?

Oh, it's so great!  I mean, they're so accommodating, Fortin Amps, they're the amp company that endorses me.  And Zach, one of their main guys, was just an early fan of the EP, and reached out, was like,"Man, I want you to play at the booth."  I was completely humbled.  They have some other extreme guys, not maybe as full blown as Vitriol, but the guitar player of Wintersun was there.

Teemu!

They had Greg from Carbomb, they had some heavy players, shit, who else?  I think does Dino (Cazares) play, maybe?  I don't know.  Anyway, they had some heavier guys, it was cool.  They had the little stool setup for me, and I'm like, "No it's cool, I'll stand." (laughs).  I play in shows, yeah, it was great.  It was really cool, and the ultimate leveling field because, there's no genre, no one's separated by genre.  You go to a show, right?  You're going to be around a bunch of Metalheads, right?  You're going to be rubbing elbows with Metal guitar players.  At NAMM, you're fucking, you're testing pedals with this Gospel guy, next to this Bluegrass guy, and it was just awesome!

You learn, right?

It's so cool, yeah.  And I'm just a fan of pretty much everything, so I like being able, just a smorgasbord of other cultures, and being able to look over the fence and see what are other people are up to, you know?  What they're excited about, what their values are.  And you can always glean shit from that like, I'm really into pedals right now.

You had a bit.

And that's not that big in Extreme Metal, right now, as for guitar players.  It's more big into the worship guitar player community, and that's where a lot of the pedal testing is happening, so no one's really theory crafting these pedals, for our application.  So, it's fun for me, to dig into these things, that I've been geared toward, you know, Johnny So and So playing you know, worship covers, in a giant super church.

The theme you talked about:  Being uncomfortable.

Yeah (laughs).  Then being able to use that, and try to figure out a way to exploit it, to make it do something unique for my purposes, and I just have a lot of fun doing that, trying to make things do things they aren't necessarily supposed to do.  Like, we tracked Adam's bass through my 1979 Marshall J&P Guitar Head.  Most of the bass tone on our album, is just guitar tone, like vintage Marshall guitar tone, because we really wanted a "beamy", like punchy, mid-range-y, articulate, musical bass tone.  We didn't want it to just hold down the low end.  That was one of those experiments that really paid off, they don't always.  Sometimes they go horribly wrong.  But that was one that really, I think, paid off, it's really cool.  I'll probably do that for albums moving forward.

Very cool!  And, I'm probably their unofficial spokesperson, but as you know and what we've talked about, Anata.  I'll send and show you, you can see and what we were talking about, that form and what we see, and the good ones, too.

Oh yeah, I'm definitely familiar with Anata.

Oh yeah!  The Conductor's Departure is like, leaves me breathless each time.  Fredrik Schalin's, quite the genius.  Too bad they have not played.

I'm a big--you mentioned Augury earlier.

Yeah!

A huge turning point album for me, was Fragmentary Evidence.

I think actually, after all these years, that's their best record.

It's their best record.  I would actually go as far to say, and I don't hyperbolize casually, I think that album's a masterpiece.

I agree!  "Jupiter to Ignite", "Sovereigns Unknown" in the middle, it's unexplainable.

"Simian Cattle", "Aetheral", I mean, all of those are just--

"Forest" wrote that, too. There are 9 songs, Patrick wrote 3, Mathieu wrote 3, and Dominic "Forest" wrote 3.

No shit?

Yeah, they wrote 3, 3, 3.

Wow!  That's so weird to think about, because it's such a well put together album.  It flows so well.  Weird, well good for them!  Fucking assholes (laughs).

They did play with Vader in 2010 (Actually December 2009, my mistake), so I did get to see them, and they did play with--

I think I saw that show!  I think they came to Hawthorne Theater, in Portland.  I did see Augury once.  

They also did play with The Black Dahlia Murder and Obscura, as well.  

When was that?

2010 (March).

Okay, it was one of those, I don't remember which one.  I just remember seeing them once.

With this the first day of the tour, and I'll be at the LA show the last day, where I'm from in Orange County, so I'll be at the LA show as well.  1720's a great venue, as well.  Good beer selection.  Anything you'd like to say from the first day, to the last day and beyond, for Vitriol fans?

Yeah man, shit, you think I'd just have this in my back pocket by now.  Come to the shows, support fucking Death Metal, stay for fucking everybody, Vader's the best, enjoy your month, I'll see you in 25 days, or something.