Interviews
JON SCHAFFER OF ICED EARTH, March 8th, 2018
Forming Purgatory in 1985, Jon Schaffer was set on a mission to show the world his unique Metal vision to the unsuspecting world. Changing the band's name to Iced Earth in 1988, Iced Earth 30 year reign over the Metal world has been nothing short of sensational. Now, fresh off their 12th record Incorruptible, Iced Earth's return to North America has been waiting with bated breath, 4 years since their last North American tour. Jon discusses from the Belasco Theater in Los Angeles, the absence of the band, Incorruptible, his musical style and guitar playing, including some confirming news on his other band lovechild, with Hansi Kursch of Blind Guardian, Demons & Wizards:
(The entire audio interview can be found at the bottom of the page.)
Metalchondria: It's been close to four years since Iced Earth has toured North America. We've all missed the band. Of course, the issues with your back and surgery complications, building the new studio as well, give us an update on what's been going on with the band?
Jon Schaffer: We've been staying busy, man. After surgery and my recovery in 2014, had to take some time to heal up. I also bought these buildings and did a shit load of construction and renovation, and then started immediately into songwriting and recording, touring, and here we are.
This is a great tour package to bring to North America, and also a special and bittersweet with Sanctuary, the passing of Warrel Dane (Note: I mispronounced his name, thank you Jon for correcting me right after the fact), and Joseph Michael of Witherfall performing vocals for this tour, like a farewell tribute to Dane and Sanctuary. Could you talk about the relationship you've had with Dane, and perhaps share a fond memory or story with him?
I've had a lot of memories with Warrel, because we did four tours together, actually. Three of those we lived on a bus together, you know? One of those tours was really short, two were really extensive five to six week tours of Europe, and then we toured North America with Nevermore as our support in 1998 or 1999, so there were a lot of memories made with Warrel. The first Sanctuary is one of my favorite Metal albums of all time. So, I was a fan already before I met Warrel in person, and we had a good relationship, man. We spent a lot of time together, in those early years. So it was very tragic, and I wasn't sure what was going to happen. I mean, I heard about it the morning that everybody did, really really early in the morning and I was in touch with a lot of people obviously. I gave it some time, and there was a point where we got to know what's going on, because we have to find another band if you guys can't do it, and I mean I didn't expect them to do it, at all. But then Lenny (Rutledge, guitarist and one of the founding members of Sanctuary) said he had the idea of doing like a tribute and farewell to Warrel, and did I know any singers that could possibly do it? I recommended Joseph, and Joseph has the ability to do that early Sanctuary stuff, at least from a range standpoint, I knew that. And I knew he was a big fan of Warrel's, so him and Lenny got together on the phone, and decided to give it a shot, and they have my support for that.
How have fans of Sanctuary and Nevermore on this tour reacted to this new change?
Well, everything I've seen has been overwhelmingly positive. I mean, you're going to see that there's always going to be people who are going to be anti something like this, but you know, it's very positive. And they've been getting a real strong reaction, and I've had a look at their social media, because the guys in the band were telling me they were posting a lot and it's looking good. I've scrolled through there and was looking at the comments which were vast vast were very positive. It's cool man! Joseph has no illusions whose shoes he's filling, and he's a fan of Warrel's, so he considers it an honor to be there. I think they've been having a good time, and it's been cool. And of course, it's been sad. We had a really sad day at Seattle, because that's their home. I saw Jim Sheppard and hadn't seen him since 2011, and he was the bassist of Sanctuary and Nevermore, and Jeff Loomis (former guitarist of Nevermore), it was a heavy day for pretty much everybody, but the fans loved it, you know? So it's cool.
That's good to hear, I'm glad. Metal's a very beautiful, cleansing thing for all of us, and I'm glad that everybody is taking the very tragic event, to a really positive thing, it's a good thing, you know? So Incorruptible has been out for almost a year, and really well received from the Iced Earth fans. And something I noticed compared to Plagues of Babylon, where the first six songs of that record was a darker concept, from "Plagues of Babylon" to "The End?". But on this record, the songs kind of had their own individual theme, every song was individualized, with "Clear the Way (December 13th, 1862)" also being one of the best closers to an Iced Earth album since "Come What May", kind of on that album closers as "Travel in Stygian" and "Dante's Inferno", talk to me about the process for this album?
It's a very different record from "Plagues" or even from "Dystopia". It's kind of music being channeled in a certain way and make it happen, it's always authentic and not done contrived. The only decision that was contrived during this writing process, is that I decided very early that I wasn't going to do a theme or concept record, it was just going to be a collection of songs. I had a lot of different things I wanted to write about, and so did Stu (Stu Block, vocalist). So we just said, "Fuck it, we don't need to do a theme or concept." We done a lot of those, and it's probably since the first Iced Earth record that it's been individual tracks that aren't related to each other. So, it's been a while, but it was a lot of fun, man! It's a very strong record, and the break that we took we absolutely needed. It wasn't really a break, not for me, but it was a break from the public eye. I was having surgery, recovering, and working very hard doing construction, that kind of stuff, and the writing and pre-production, all the shit that I do.
This is the third record with Stu. Has it become even easier and that much more comfortable writing with him, and with the melodies, vocals, and the music arrangements? I know you have a very strong relationship with him, considering that, does the album process become that much greater?
They've all been easy, actually. That's never been an issue. I do all the arrangements myself really, before Stu even gets involved in it, then his contributions come later depending on how it's going to work. If it's a song I'm writing lyrics for, then 99% of the time I'm writing the melodies for it, too, vocal melodies and all the other stuff too. If it's one that he's doing, then it's typically his melodies and his lyrics, and sometimes we do it together, and that's the case on a few songs. On this one, I think it just might be "Brothers", that we wrote lyrics together on. But we've done it on others in the past, and it's never been hard to write with Stu, man. Him and I clicked immediately (snaps fingers), from the time we first met. Is it easier? Yeah! But it was never hard, but it's just now that he's more experienced with me producing, and knows what I'm going to expect. He's learned a lot from being in the studio, so that part he's gained a lot of experience. There's some things that we don't have to talk about anymore, you know what I mean? He just knows already now after this record, and we did two records together previously, spending a lot of time together when you're in those situations, besides all of our touring experience together, which is a lot.
Speaking of touring, something I've been curious about the band. Iced Earth is a huge name, and especially in Europe where the band will headline over bigger bands from North America in festivals and tours. In the US, Iced Earth still has a really good name and following too, but I'm curious. What particular thing or aspect help establish that real concrete solid base, to where Iced Earth can play any tour here and do really well? Was it the 2001 tour with Megadeth on their The World Need a Hero tour? Or when Horror Show came out and that special In Flames tour occurred?
No, no, it has nothing do to with that. It has to do with integrity, that's what always has solidified the base wherever we're at, and it started from the first record in Central Europe, and it has blossomed worldwide. It happened very organically, and you know the internet has caused it to bloom in other parts of the world, but that concrete foundation has nothing to do with a particular album cycle, or a band that opened for us or whatever (laughs), you know? That has nothing to do with it, or whoever we opened for, for that matter. It has to do with the fundamentals of the band, and that's how you develop a loyal following and integrity. You stick to your guns, you do what you do, and you stay true to it, and the people appreciate it, who also happen to get really passionate about it. Iced Earth has been successful since the very beginning, and just grew. It started in Central Europe, and it grew out and grew out. And it was in America where I relocated the band in '97 from Florida up to the Midwest, where we were able to attack Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, stayed base in Indiana, and then it spread it out to the coast, but it's always been through work. There's no big fucking money band behind the curtain, making shit happen for Iced Earth, that's not the way it is.
I meant more getting into the public eye, where you got that special exposure to other people, at that particular time era.
Well, those things will help, for sure. Our first European tour we were main support for Blind Guardian. We had a huge reaction and did four encores after we got off stage the first night in Hamburg, and they were like, "Whoa!" But we all hit it off, and became brothers instantly, an amazing tour together, one for all of our memories of a lifetime. But it grows, and you have to attack every territory as a new thing, so it took longer for things to develop in the states, but we didn't even start working the states until '97, you know? The band was already well established in Europe, by then.
Something else I've been really fascinated about of Iced Earth, is your songwriting and your rhythm ability. Most of your songs are downpicked, which is absolutely insane. The speed, clean technique, the structures of the riffs and motions, which is one of Iced Earth's signature, something many of us know you by, and as someone who plays guitar and studies music, it's really special to hear those riffs take a special life of their own. I understand Iron Maiden was a big influence for you personally, but to take it to that kind of level, what can you contribute to yourself as a guitar player, and a songwriter, to make that style?
I just it's about intention, man. It's my intention. That energy comes through in every player, that has their own style. It almost doesn't matter what guitar or rig they're playing, as soon as their hand is on the instrument. If you pay attention, you can tell who it is. If it's somebody that has made and put in their full intention into that and their energy, it comes through. You can tell Eddie Van Halen (snaps fingers), instantly! You can tell any of these dudes, as soon as they start playing. He doesn't need to get, for me, to hear Eddie. I don't need him to get to a solo, I can tell on his rhythms. And I'm not saying I'm Eddie Van Halen, I'm just saying from a standpoint of view of different guitar players where you can immediately recognize their style, I think it just has to do with the intention of their personality, and really putting their heart and soul into it, and it comes out. I think that's what it is, I don't really know.
And also with that kind of style, there's been over the years, that every album of Iced Earth is very different from other, despite the mannerisms and signature aspects. And now there are bands who are playing 320 BPM, bands playing 8 string or even 12 string guitars at incredible speeds. Playing devil's advocate momentarily, there are many as you said who know who that it's Schaffer playing, that it's Iced Earth. But the newer generation who maybe think, lackadaisical, or just not pushing a certain boundary--
I don't give a fuck what they think. Most of these people are going to end up, if you have that kind of time to be critical of me, or other bands, it means you're not accomplishing your own shit. So you're probably living in your mom's basement, listening to fucking whatever, sitting around guitar nerding all day, and not having to think about real life. I just don't know anybody that's ever been successful, that has the time to do that kind of shit. So I don't really give a fuck, actually, to what those people think or say. I am who I am, take it or leave it. It's not a popularity contest, it's just the way it is.
During the making of Incorruptible, it was fascinating to see you taking live questions on Facebook in the studio. It was something that I was intrigued about, seeing such established bands doing these new things with technology, Facebook, social media, and being that Iced Earth started in the mid 80s, how do you see now bands, veteran and newer bands, attempt to stay constant and relevant to the ever changing world of technology? Do you like that, and is there something you enjoy about this new concept of, and something you don't like or can't appreciate?
I'm not a fan it, I feel it's killed the illusion, which is one of the cool things and all. You know, if everybody could watch what you're doing backstage before you go on, then there's no mystery. And people don't realize that they're killing the thing they love, to a large degree. There's something cool also about it, being able to go directly to your fan base, but I'm not a big fan of it. That doesn't mean we don't need to do it, but I have enough work to do, you know? People have no fucking clue what my day is like, and the normal rigor moral of Iced Earth, because it's a shit load of work. It's always work, and so I'm not going to be that guy. In those rare occasions, yes. But I'm not the guy that's going to do that, I got enough shit to do that actually results earning money which we need, you know? That stuff I know it's good for promotion, but if I invest my time into something, I need to be certain that there's some kind of return for the rest of us, because my time is valuable. So those things are okay once in a while, but I'm not of those social media guys. But it's important, it is what it is now, but it's not something I'm going to personally going to do. I don't have the time or the desire. If I feel like for Facebook, if the people are my friends, we're in touch with each other. I don't need to have a bunch of kids I said hi to in high school (laughs), and all of a sudden we're connected on Facebook, I don't care about that shit, but that's me. I'm kind of an old school dude , man. I like to get my hands dirty and work. I kind of have a double-edged feeling about this, but I know that in the rest of my career and my life, I'm not going to be someone who's going to take a big active role in that kind of stuff, that's not going to happen.
Festival season is coming up, and this current tour will be finished in a couple of weeks, what are the 2018 goals for Iced Earth? Will there be another North American tour? What are the strong goals for 2018?
Well, 2018 after this run, we have a short break and then we go to Europe again for the festivals. And then after that, I'll be focusing on Demons & Wizards, so the band will be off for the rest of the year, and maybe until January or February. But I'll be in studio for it.
That was going to be my next question, and as a question I know you get asked all the time, and you mentioned before previously that when schedules would work, Hansi (Vocalist for Blind Guardian) and yourself, that it was something to discuss and plan for, and this is the first time I've heard concrete plans for Demons & Wizards.
Oh yeah, it is. We've already gotten three songs going, but it's definitely on my agenda. And Hansi has been waiting on me, man, so it's time. It's way past time, but it's working out this way, so from August on I'm really going to get focused on it. I'm going to try to do some work in the hole between this tour and Europe, but I need a break too, it gets very intense.
With the high demand of Demons & Wizards in the states and Europe, does that make it easier in terms of planning things, tours and the record itself? Does it make it easier knowing there's such a demand that you can really make your own schedule that would work best with everybody?
(Pauses) Kind of. The easy part of Demons & Wizards for me, is my partner is completely as experienced as I am in every part of it. So that means that there's somebody to help carry the weight, and that is awesome! We do this together, and from that he's got a full understanding, a strong business mind, which is a huge help, because he's got the experience to back it up. It's not like somebody who's been doing it for a couple of years, and is just learning about the business, he knows it. We're veterans, and actually makes things really smooth and cool, and from a creative standpoint too, it's super easy. It's still a lot of work doing the musical arrangements, but knowing that when I'm done with that part and Hansi is running with it, and that's also not only does it create the Frankenstein, but it's less stuff that I have to worry about. So it's pretty cool, as far as that goes. As far as logistically planning festivals, touring and stuff like that, that's a little more complicated, because Hansi and I are both committed to our main bands. So we always we have to make sure when these things come up, that they're not going to run over each other in any way, scheduling wise. So it's not exactly simpler on that side, for musically and from a productive standpoint, it is for me.
And my last question. Like Dave (Mustaine) from Megadeth, Chuck Schuldiner from Death formally, and yourself: When someone names those bands, everyone knows that one person is the band. You made the band, and are the band. Over the years and to this day, you have a lot of great members contributing now and everything, and I look at it from bands who have been around so long. You made Purgatory in '85, changing the name to Iced Earth in '88, 30 years plus. What have you learned about yourself, and this entire journey and continuing it? Not exactly validation, but what you've gone through to get the band to this structure and touring. What can you say you have learned a lot about yourself, and for this whole time in your musical journey?
You know, I've learned a lot of things, man. And I've had some amazing talent in this band through the years, and nobody's going to argue if I'm the driving force or not, and I don't need to say that, or pat my back. Anybody who pays attention, they know that. And so the guys that have been in the band, which it also doesn't take anything away from their contributions. I would say probably out of everything I've learned, that I really need to be more in the moment, for myself. I'm always planning, always trying to be six steps or ten steps ahead. And at some point, you just need to try to live in the moment and enjoy. I sit back and look at, especially when I started unpacking archives recently and trying to organize the warehouse, I said, "Man, one of these days I'm going to wake up dead, and be like what the fuck happened?" Because I don't even pay attention to it, it's just blazing a trail constantly, and you never sit back and go, "Man, look at the shit you've done! Look how cool it is!" So that's the one thing that I can say in the last few years, that I need to try to be more in the moment, and less focused on the future. Because if you're always focused on the future, you're not in the moment, and you're missing everything. I guess in some ways, that's one of the challenges for anybody that has my role in the band, when you're a leader and the driving force of the band, and you're on a mission, so you miss stuff. You're too worried about the mission, and not what happened. So that's probably the biggest thing in recent years, and "Raven Wing" has a lot do to with that. It's just been a trip, a hell of a journey.
Any last words to the fans out there, especially the ones in North America who waited near four years to see Iced Earth?
As always, thanks for all the support. Iced Earth has some of the most loyal fans ever, in the history of Rock 'N Roll and Heavy Metal, and that's an awesome thing, so I just want to thank them for that.