“Death Atlas Obsessed!” – A Detailed, Passionate Conversation with Josh Elmore of Cattle Decapitation
Pictures were taken on the first night of the tour, at Brick by Brick, San Diego, California (January 18th, 2022)
January 20th, 2022
(The entire audio portion can be found at the bottom of the page)
Metalchondria: Jason of Metalchondria, here with Mr. Josh Elmore of Cattle Decapitation. I can't believe it's been two years since Death Atlas came out! We've just lost so much time, more than anything else, just time has been gone. It's been two years plus since the album's been released, but there's so much I want to learn about it. Hearing the band since Humanure, (a little after) To Serve Man, there's been so many changes, the structures, the setups, and the riffs. Just, tell me how, was this music planned to be, with The Anthropocene (Extinction) album, was this the plan all along to make something like this? How did this new sound and the album come about?
Josh Elmore: I think, the band started as a very straight Grind band with Death Metal aspirations, right? That, I think we've always been, had these sorts of ambitions of, okay whatever era, is this the sort of idea, of thing that we're going for, but not quite getting it? So like, you hear 3 album chunks of ascending to whatever that ideal is. And then finally, getting it, on the 3rd one. But, during the course of that, you know that doesn't devalue the music that's in the, hopeful upswing towards that. Just some really good stuff came out of that, I just think that (motioning and humming going higher and higher), you know, we're kind of trying to, shift what we're heading towards, it goes in chunks of 3, I believe.
The first 2, total Grind, and then To Serve Man, was obviously much "cleaner" version, but it was basically a Grindcore record, with like, Death Metal-y stuff going on. Humanure, obviously we tried to like, "Oh, we got to like, start writing longer songs, cause we're on Metal Blade (Records), we're a Death Metal band now!" So, there was recusing of how to do that correctly! (laughs). And you know, might still have a song. So, there was that, but we also wanted to experiment, and you know, do off-the-wall kind of scrummy, spazzy stuff. So, that's Karma.Bloody.Karma. You have, you know, some standard Death Metal kind of stuff, a little Black Metal stuff here and there, some more experimental stuff, some total, like you know, slappy Gorguts, scrawnkyness here and there?
And then yeah, the full realization of the more technical side of the band, is (The) Harvest Floor. 'Cause there is so many notes on that record, I don't even, I can't even remember how to play half those songs (laughs), about half of them, if not all. But it is just so much going on. But that record, that's some peoples favorite record, because that sort of facet of the band, on 10, you know? I think after that record, we kind of like sat back a little bit, and you're like, "Well, it's not like we want to dumb stuff down, or anything like that." But we just want to like, assess how to have as much replay value as possible, yet still be abrasive as we can be (laughs), you know? And also, not be afraid to like, influence each other either off-the-wall, or not Metal at all, whatever. If this can be incorporated in a way, where it's not just shoehorning something in for the sake of it, or just to like, you know, just for the sake of varying with no real respect to the song, or whatever's going on. We can do that, please, let's do that.
"Mono" (Monolith of Inhumanity), "Anthro", and Death Atlas, is kind of this, like I was describing before, this progression of becoming more comfortable, you know, who we are 25 years into our career (laughs), "career". And just, evolving, you know? I think, the next record, which should be the first in the next group, we're getting old here, so I don't know how many records they're going to be.
I'm fascinated to what that album sounds like!
I'm 46, so we got to do what we can.
Really?
Yeah, Travis is 47. Right in the middle of, Middle Age! So, the next one is, just, we go in with this one picture of it in the studio, and what we come out with is, not dramatically different, but it's always like, "Oh! That's sort of, not quite what I was expecting, that was a pleasant surprise." (Dave) Otero kind of, brings in certain things or really wants us to, "Take that riff or that part, for all it's worth, and that thing is just really selling that song." Or whatever, you know? So, just a very general sort of, we're still in the late, late stages of writing it, and I'm still figuring out how I feel about certain things, what layers I'm going to add to stuff, for textural atmospheric stuff. It's still ripping fast, in parts, but a lot more, I don't want to say "groove", but just heavy oriented. So, if there's people who really like the kind of type, of guitars locked up with the kicks, but just punishingly heavy stuff, they're going to be really pleased. But there's a ton, whole kind of cinematic soundtrack atmosphere stuff, there's a ton of that. I don't necessarily mean like bumpers between the songs, but integrated within the songs. What I'm doing, with a lot of the layering, the atmospherics, is way more prevalent. So, there's ripping double-bass, one guitar just like (makes chugging sound) chugging, or super-fast single-note picking, and then me playing fucking Sad Sack Joe crap over the top of it, so...
Metalchondria: (laughs). I'm personally really curious to hear how that album's going to sound, from Death Atlas. When I heard "Vulturous", that one part where (humming out the 1:16 - 1:31 to 1:45 - 2:00 variations of the same riff) it goes like really lower, it goes to a blast part, it goes back to the lower (note) section and you can barely hear it, those little details...It feels like the tempo on certain parts, are faster, but it feels like the tempos are spread out a little more. There's more breathing room for some of the choruses, more interlude-y, I hear more attention to detail. "We know we're tight musicians, we know we practice, we know each other, let’s just use each other's strengths together."
Yes. Exactly, like you said, the space. Letting Travis have room, literally, room to breathe. He can have phrases, he can write, you can call them hooks whatever, add to the layers of what's going on, give him more room to do it. Because before, you know some of the spazzy stuff, like either in "Karma", or "Harvest Floor", or whatever, it's like the guy on alligator heads doing one of these sorts of things (motioning loss of balance and movement). He had really tried to jam his personality in these short bursts. So, once we kind of like, part of that sort of thought process and discussion we had before "Mono" came out was like, it's going to be shredding paint! Fucking machine gunning a wall sounding, but let the changes happen a little more, you know, spread stuff out, so these more dramatic sections, and I think that's really served us well, that decision. It's not, we haven't compromised anything. People can hear like (in snooty voice), "Ohhh, who does he think he this, referring me, 'Billy Duffy', 'or Johnny Marr', playing this sprinkle-y stuff over the top?" Well, maybe, but no. It just adds texture, you know? And there's this (mimics a gatling gun and a dragon), you know going on. Oh no, it's not like we, I don't know...
To you point, I have friends, and my brother, and people, who heard Cattle for so long. And, their point of view way back was like: album wise, album for Cattle, they know it's good, there's parts they like, but live? "Oh, where's Cattle? Cattle's playing? Let's go see them live!" This album, is like the first time, "I can listen to this album in whole." They haven't really felt that way about an album.
I've had a lot of people say that, even keeping "Anthro" and "Mono", in mind. Especially with Death Atlas, the more any of them, "I can actually put this on, listen to it beginning to end, and if it accidentally loops? Okay!" And then they're like, "Oh, shit. I've listened to this two times already." (laughs) And people, whether they're into Metal, Extreme Metal, Death Metal/Grind, Black, whatever, outside of that, I've had people who don't even really listen to Metal that much, "Yeah there's a few things I listen to, but I'm more of an EDM (Electronic Dance Music)." Or whatever they're into, they're like, "Man, I listen to that record all the time." That's, it's not our thing as, "Oh, we have to reach this." Vast amount of people, if that happens, it's great! If we do, amazing, fantastic. But, if it can speak to people who aren't, blinders on Metal people, isn't that kind of what you want? But still remain true to what you're doing, and not compromise what you're about, to reach anyone, because that'll ultimately fail.
Is this the first time Belisario (Dimuzio), your guitar player, is this the first time that there's been two guitar players on a studio album for Cattle? I think that's right?
He was on Death Atlas.
This is the first one, the only one?
Death Atlas? Yes, that's right.
What was that like? That must have been different, right? To have another guitar player?
Well, yes, but I think on this upcoming record, that we're working, finishing up, at least the writing process, just writing right now; I think it's going to be more distinct that there's two different guitar parts going on. Death Atlas, yeah there's harmonies there, or like I'm doing octaves, and he's doing the chord parts, vice-versa, or he's doing a high harm(ony) something. Yeah, it was there, but it sounded like with "Anthro", a handful of, "Oh, I just probably did it in the studio." But now, since I have another, we have two guitar players, we can do stuff, I didn't have to worry before, where I was like, "Oh, well it's just only me, I guess I'll step on an octave pedal, or something to give it an illusion of depth. No, he can do it, I can do this, he can do that, and as I was saying, with the sort of layering and cinematic kind of sound-effecting crap, I can do that now. And, there's still a guitar going (mimics playing heavy), aggressive and heavy, so you don't lose the heavy, but you still get the advantage of having those textures, and vice-versa. You're not just like, "Well, I gotta chug." The bottom doesn't drop out, but you're sacrificing this sort of really cool atmospheric that could add, a lot more emotional weight on this stuff. It's the best of both worlds, having that stuff. So, I think in that next record you're going, I hope, you're going to hear a lot more distinct like, there's two guitars playing. There's A, B, coming back and forth. Not like you know, a lot of people think, "Oh, they're just going to harmonize, twin-noodle-noodler!" Whatever, it’s like, not really. Here's two people's distinct styles, hopefully complementing one another, to make this cohesive hole.
Like Trey (Azagthoth), and (Erik) Rutan, you know on Domination.
Yeah yeah, they have distinctive things with them, but unifies to this pleasing...
To your point, I always felt Cattle's rhythm was underrated, to the point where I always felt there should have been two guitar players live. Because, while you're doing the solo or lead, that rhythm part is still great, and you don't, you miss stuff.
Yeah, you miss that. When you're in studio, I haven't done the laid down the lead yet, like, "Ahh, it's kind of a sick riff!" (laughs) Ahhh, not that you want to use a throwaway riff under the lead or whatever, but it's like, that's a really sick riff. But that's another thing with like the spacing out stuff, oh, if you kind of like...I was paid attention to it, but I really, really, started to paying attention to like, songwriting in the very like, oh man, this Mr. Mister song is incredible. Okay, well obviously I like to listen to it, let me just take a pencil and paper out, and write, "A, B, C, C, (etc)." Just write the structures out, and just kind of like, look at that and go, okay obviously I'm hearing it, and recognizing, but there's certain things that are sort of unconsciously lead you there. And, just appreciating structure of, yeah, Pop music of the 80s, or Top 40 of the 80s, you can say.
There's some good synth, there's some good 80s stuff!
Oh, dude! Like I said, I'm a child of that, so, I'll love all that stuff, and just the songwriting in that. That's where a lot of modern music, and this is where Grandpa comes in, they just don't do that. You know what it is? It's like, watching a highlight reel from someone dunking, over and over and over, there's no drama. Yes, there's no lull to where there's like, not lull but a buildup. There's no tension release, it's all just 100% like (Imitating ads), "Do you want to be pleasured all the time?! Let's do it! Right now, let's do it! It never ends! We're going to shovel this down your mouth, fucking look at boobs!" Or whatever your thing is, all the time! And there's no like, you can't enjoy that, unless there's some sort of, there's no peaks and valleys. Everything is 100% all the time, and it's just like; I'm not talking about aggression music, or you know where it's, "Oh, it's all blastbeats!" No, it's just within that, there's no songwriting, it's just all; you're shopping and you hear, "Oh, this sold a jillion--" No, no one buys records anymore, what am I talking about? It's received bajillions of looks on whatever, yeah. "This is what's popular?" I know that's Grandpa talking again, but even all genres. It doesn't have to be like Pop music, it could be Rock, anything. Everything sounds like a bumper, like that 5-second bumper when they go to commercial on an NFL game, and let's make a whole album out of that. Ugh. No drama anymore.
They don't do it, like they do anymore. A few more questions, and thank you again for your time: Being around Travis, his vocal delivery, the concepts not just in the lyrics, but I feel concepts within his voice, patterns, emotions, like in "Time's Cruel Curtain", the "We Know That We're Wrong!" That part that, little riff (2:04 - 2:26) little triplet, picked note right there. Yeah!
(Humming 1000x better than my best day) Yeah!
There's so much, what did he do, his contributions? Did he do anything different than you've ever seen before, do?
His vocal performance on Death Atlas?
Yeah, his overall (performance).
Okay, he's been doing, you know for whatever the, "Oh, the Witch voice!" Or whatever thing. He's been doing that like on record, since (The) Harvest Floor. "Regret and the Grave", he did that towards the end of the song, and people never, either haven't heard that record, or just don't ever remember that. But then, there was like, probably touches of him experimenting with that, on Karma.Bloody.Karma. Here and there.
Even in the (Cattle Decapitation / Caninus Split) EP, there was a little of bit in "No Future", a little bit of that, some too.
Yep! A far as Death Atlas goes, I don't know if it was like, we're never you know, his performance is never like, "Well, I'm just gonna kind of, auto-pilot this." He's always trying to push himself, have another element, a new element to his voice, he's engaging.
This just seems different, in a great way! Just different.
Cattle Decapitation L-R: Belisario Dimuzio, Josh Elmore, Travis Ryan, David McGraw, Olivier Pinard (Metal Blade Records)
Yes! It's like, I think he filose, "You know, fuck it. I don't care if people say..." It's not a Pop thing, but just like, "I'm going to have all those hooks. I'm going to like, really try to use my voice, in a way..." Yes, he's really abrasive, kind of harsh vocals. But, in a way that's almost somewhat traditional musically. (Mimics song structures) You know, and writing hooks, even though it's this super abrasiveness to it. As you were mentioning "Time's Cruel Curtain", that whole like, there's two different guitar persons. The one I'm doing the octaves, and then just bending one, so it sounds like, (mimics the main riff).
Oh yeah!
Sad sexy?
(laughs)
And then the other part, which is like, (mimics the 2:04 riff), very just sort of, almost like singer-songwriter moody, you know, under that? And, those two things I think, perhaps inspired him, to have this real somber kind of thing. The octave thing I'm doing? I didn't have that until we were in the studio, because I was like, "I got to put something in there." Because I love that riff underneath it, but I want to put something in there, just to get one little thing. So, I probably just sitting there like, "Okay, I think I want to use this Reverberator pedal I have." Ahh, just started fucking around, and then I did, and Travis was like, "That. Yes! Do that. Oh my god, let's do it again, let's do it again." So, I was just, it was one of those lucky on the fly things. To great effect, I listen to it know I'm like, "If I just spent x amount of time trying to overthink all of that, there's no way I would have come up with something that simple and stupid." (laughs) But effective at the same time!
Does he write music at all? Or any contributions to like, parts or like, transitions, counterpoints, or slowing stuff down?
Oh, yeah! He's very like, he knows our mission's like, "We want the songs. The songs, and the album." You know, it's not like to make this part the most Tech, or any of this crap, or the most heavy, or whatever. It's the song, you know? If it happens to need that? Then yes. But as far as writing the actual music, no. There are parts where he'll suggest, you know, one of us will be stuck. "I really want to play a layer." Like me, "I want to layer something over here, but I really haven't thought of it, I'll, I'll come up with something." And then, that's like, "Okay, well I got to do my layers and leads here in a couple days." And he'll come by with like, "Ah, you know what I was thinking? You're talking about it, don't even play this, or anything remotely close to this!" If it's something like this feel, and he'll just play, you know kind of throw something out real quick, and it's, "Oh! That's good." And sometimes that inspires you to write something, that has a feel to it. So, it's not like, he's like, "Okay, do this, do this, do this." It's more like, inspiring what he does. It's incredibly helpful.
That's good to hear!
Some of the arrangements too, they'll be like, "Do I really want to play this part, a couple more times, you know?" Or more like, tempo matching. He'll be like, "Man, I know we practiced it like this, but it's going to really weird unless you do this!" And he'll show us and like, "Ahh fuck it, you're right." And then we'll, kind of make that adjustment.
Kyle (Rasmussen) of Vitriol, told me too, that people don't write the riffs in the band, but other people will recommend, they'll change the drum accent part, let's slow down this part, it's more of like, changing tempo of certain things. Not adding riffs, but just like...So I kind of see where that is coming.
Yeah, he contributes. He's not one of those guys whose just presses the record button, and says, "Oh, do it again." Or whatever. He does do that, too (laughs). But he's fully invested in the project, whomever he works with. And just, his suggestions are great. It's like, 9 out of 10 times, he's right. But man, when he's not, it's amazing. Because it's like, "Ahh, for once, you're not correct!"
(laughs) You should record that part, keep an album, that'd be cool!
And he'll be like, "Okay guys, ahhh, stupid idea!" But he's right about so much stuff, 'cause he's, it's his job, you know? We trust him, you know, infilling with that, you know? He's one of those guys, that can get the performance he wants out of you, but without being a dick about it. So, golden. Golden!
That's awesome.
Nice guy, great you know, his girlfriend, his daughter, everyone's really nice. Great setup, family kind of, not family man in a total like, "Ohh, it's a family man!" But he is, you know.
Family can be with, band members and people, and like...
That's the way we feel with them. And I know other bands that've worked with him, feel the same way. Just 'cause, there's that affection because it's such a good experience working with him, the quality of the output that he, his product is so high.
That's why people love him.
Yeah, yeah!
Last question, Death Atlas got obviously you know, because of Covid and time, the pandemic. So, "perfect world", and hopefully everything goes better than normal, rest of the year after this year: Does the band want to tour as much? You have now so much more "say", I think ever starting up, and everything. So, it's good to pick. Is it better to get the most quality tours, or you rather want--no matter what, you'll pick 2 big tours, over 4 so-so tours?
Yes, quality. Yes, absolutely. As much as every member has their different stance on like, some people are like, "I could be out 10 months out of the year, and be fine." The other rest of us be like, "Whoa, Silver!' (laughs). But I think, for the rest of this year, we have obvious this, and then, we're recording in May/June, in Denver, at Otero's. So, we want to try to play a few shows on the way out there, which isn't really a tour, it's more like, kind of a handful of shows, to try to make some money. And after that, the next thing we have booked is...
The Chain Reaction Two Day Special?
Oh no, right? I'll try to 'nudge nudge, wink wink' in there. I'd love to do that, and I'm sure Travis would too, that would be so fun! So, we have Europe like fest season, and a few club shows which during fest season are kind of, "Uhh." We'll see what we can do. That's starting July, I want to say 27th, to August 21st? And then, we were, there's a tour in South America, which we were pitched for. We don't know if we're going to get on it, it's in like early-mid September. And then we don't do anything until mid-November. We have a very, very big US tour, that we're a part of.
Oooooo!
It's not our tour, but we're on it, and honoured to be on it.
Main support?
No. It's, when you hear the bands, you'll be like, "Oh, that's why."
Oh, wow!
It's not like some arena shit, or anything. Well, it's big venues, but it's not Rock Star shit. But it's big shit.
Okay! Honestly, happy to hear that. Any last words that you'd like to say for everyone listening? And just, for tonight, Pomona got rescheduled (February 21st, with no Creeping Death), with the rest of the tour, anything you like to end with?
Come on out, if you feel comfortable with it. I know everyone's kind of, sort of on edge with this stuff, right now. As it has been. So, come on out, if you feel safe, we'll throw our old decaying bodies around, for you. 3/5 of it, at least. And, just do our best, come see the songs live, that you hopefully going to really love over the course of us, you know, starting at screens for the past two years.