“I Simply Want to Keep the Joy of Making Music” – Steffen Kummerer of Obscura Discusses the latest record, A Valediction, and Much More
February 5th, 2022
(The entire audio portion of the interview, can be found at the bottom of the page)
Metalchondria: This is Jason from Metalchondria, here with Steffen of Obscura. It's been, the last time you were here, in 2018 with Beyond Creation and Archspire; it was an incredible show, here. So much time has gone by. How are you? How do you feel being back touring the United States?
Steffen Kummerer: Well, first of all, we arrived a couple of days ahead of time, to pre-produce the entire tour. We stayed in San Diego, and we simply enjoyed more or less, well, everything over here. Since Europe in a permanent lockdown depending on every country, and here, everything's seemed a little bit more pragmatic. Everybody seems a little bit more open-minded, well...You can tell yourself if you want to wear a mask or not, if you're, whatever you're doing. So, everything here is a little bit more open, open-minded, and we're just glad we can go back on the road. We're just happy to finally tour, and well, we played the first show in San Diego. Afterwards, we played in Mesa, Arizona, and so far, it was a rocky start getting everything back together, since the last US American tour was played in 2018. And the last show was here, at 1720, and now we're back. Four years later!
So, I noticed at the San Diego show, I didn't see David (Diepold, drummer) or Jereon (Paul Thesseling, bassist). I saw Gabe Seeber, and Alex Weber, filling in. Was there an issue about them coming over? Or are they only, or not performing live with the band?
Yeah, they're performing live with the band, but Austria and The Netherlands are in a full lockdown, and the U.S. Embassies are closed. We tried everything to get their visas. Somehow fine in Germany, but if you leave one of those countries, you stay 10 days in quarantine. And if you take a visa, you go back and have another 10 days of quarantine, they would have missed the tour anyway. It's extremely restrictive. And one of them, is also very afraid of the Covid, well, contracting Covid. There has been thoughts about if the tour's happening at all, because the risk is quite huge, that you break up a tour, in the middle of it. Shows are going to be cancelled, and everything. I was, well, in my opinion, I wanted to take the risk. And I'm fine with that, I see the pros and cons, we are not naïve. We see if it's going to happen, it's fine. If not, we have to, you have to be prepared for the best and worst case. And I rather taking the risk, and playing. And therefore, we have Gabe Seeber on drums. (He's a) wonderful person, and also a very good drummer, as well. Alex Weber, an old friend of mine, who was here on the last tour (smiles). He was playing bass for Exist, at the time.
That's right! Okay, I remember! So, with everything going on more than the pandemic, I think we've lost so much time, in general. Just with our lives, music, and everything. For you, and the band, what has gone on these past couple years? You got to write new the album, A Valediction, obviously, but is there anything you got to do differently while you couldn't perform or anything? In terms of jobs, making money, or just something different, what were you able to do for yourself: either to keep going and learn something, while all this time we've lost?
Well, we as a band, we're a little bit more flexible than for example, promoters or owners of live venues. So, we can shift a little bit what we're doing at the moment, so that's a pro. And obviously, I always try to be optimistic. I'm an optimistic person that tried to use the time, as good as possible. So, what we did this time, since we didn't know when we're able to go back on the road, we focused on media production. The reason why we have 4 music videos for the new album out, we provided for the very first time, a film maker, who's also on tour now with us, to produce an entire studio documentary. I think, we released 12 or 13 studio episodes, so far? So, this was a huge, huge, huge project.
The reason behind this is simply, trying to stay in touch with the fans. If we can't reach them through live shows, then somehow, we basically open the door to see a little bit behind the curtain, how everything works. Producing the album, and all that. So, we simply tried to shift from live shows, to another side, another medium, to stay in touch with them. And it was quite successful, I say.
Good to hear! We talked before, you had different members with Sebastian (Lanser), Rafael (Trujillo), and Linus (Klausenitzer), and talked about that time, the new change in members. Couple of years later, there's been a whole, new change of members. I only ask because, it sounded like to me that the 3 of them...all of you wrote songs in Diluvium, and everything, it seemed like the 3 of them wrote a lot of the songs together. It's just a big change that, you're the last one left, and trying to find the right members again. What was it getting in touch with Jereon and Christian (Munzner) again? What was it like this time around? What did you learn about them as people, and what did you learn about them as musicians, since they now returned?
Well, I think every musician has its very own character, when it comes to the instruments, so, I wouldn't compare anyone. It wouldn't be fair, because everybody plays a little bit different. When it comes to the human side, I was very surprised that they left, because I didn't know anything about it. I got an email, "Hey, by the way, you have free options." And I said, "Uh-Uh. This is not how it's going to work." So, I'm quite bitter about that, to be honest. But that's something I learned: Don't trust anyone. Anyway, Diluvium was written as a collective, so we all wrote the entire album together. That's exactly how we, the same approach, how we always wrote albums or even the demos, back in the day. It's always a collective effort. I don't want to pick anyone or someone out, more or less, that's not fair. It's always a collective. If you take one of the musicians out, and put somebody else in, it would sound different. Because, I always try to underline the strengths of each musician. For example, David now, he's extremely focused, or his ability and talent, I see as playing high-speed patterns; because he's still grooving, somehow. I don't know if it's push-pull technique, in drums. The same goes for Jereon, he has a different sound than the bassist who played before, or the bassist before the bassist. So, I always try to underline the character of each musician. I don't need a session musician who can play everything, because then it's soulless. I want to have somebody with a character, that's my focus.
I can see that! And speaking about David as well, talk about his introduction in the band. He's quite young, think he's barely 30-31, he's been around a little bit. Tell me about from a songwriter and a guitarist perspective, what does he do? I noticed on the new album, A Valediction, in the beginnings, there's, these great cymbal, these little flurries he would do, and you're right, still keep up with that high tempo. For me in the pandemic, I've appreciated drums, more than I ever have in my life! It just kind of like, for some reason, I've always appreciated them, but not to the level I have now, so I'm very curious. What he is like as drummer, what can you explain about his "style", so you can say?
I see David, as a very, very gifted musician, who understands the big picture of the song. So, in case the guitar space is very busy, he rather takes his drum abilities back. In case there's some room, his arrangements are a little bit more busy. So, he tries to keep the dynamics of the entire song very, very fluid. And, this is the strength. Sometimes if you play with virtuosos, they want to show off, basically every second. But, with David, it's different. He has a very nice overview, also for the entire songs, the arrangements. And he was of course, like everyone else, involved. But he also gave his ideas, he's not holding anything back, or anything behind the bush. I think within the first two weeks, he was basically well-involved. Very open-minded person, well, fantastic guy to hang out with.
Did he actually write songs on this record?
No.
Ahh, okay. This was one of the first members that didn't actually contribute to writing this time, right?
It's always different. I mean, we have so many different people in the past. I always see this as a collective. Even as I mentioned, neither Jereon or David wrote entire songs, but they still influenced each composition of Chris and myself. So, it's teamwork.
A Valediction (Nuclear Blast Records)
And I like to talk about the new album. I noticed when I heard it, there was a lot more, like fast-picking riffs. I would say, if there were 7-8 tracks per song on a studio album, I felt there was maybe 5 or 6. I felt there it was a little "stripped down". As technical as the band is, I felt there was a little more "breathing room", I guess, a little more out in the open. The beginning intros, with the fast-picking, a little Neo-Classical guitar in some of the solos, it just seemed a little more aggressive, but not...I don't know. It felt a little more stripped down, more right in your face. Talk to me about the process of making A Valediction?
Well, there was a certain aim we had. Since Obscura's a live band, we play more shows, we spend more time on stage or, traveling around, than in the studio. So, some of the songs we play basically every night, evergreens: "Akroasis", "(The) Anticosmic Overload", "Emergent Evolution", we have to play those songs. And, I want to go away from too much polyrhythm, because we overdid it, a little bit, on the last record. It's a very technical record, but if you write something in that direction, this also demands a crisp, clear production. And, I want to bring in a little bit more breath and air, into the entire album. So, we used this a little bit, and it turned out to be a little be more straightforward. But this gives you more room, simply to unfold the human touch within the production. It really breathes, so we didn't polish everything, because it doesn’t need to! Therefore, it has a more aggressive attitude. It's written more for the live situation, than for the audiophile, sitting at home with, I don't know, 5,000 Euro headphones.
Christian Munzner and Steffen Kummerer performing at the 1720 club in Los Angeles, February 5th, 2022
I see what you mean. Also, I noticed too, the writing, the compositions, Christian wrote I believe, he at least co-wrote the first 10 of the 11 songs in the record, so it sounded like he had a lot of overall writing say, in comparing to everything else. What was it like writing with him again? And, I noticed on some of the parts, like the end of "The Neuromancer", after the solo, there's this extra melodic twin guitar together. What it was it like bringing him back with the writing process? Did he see the same as you? What did he bring this time around, with the record?
Well, of course we talked, before he rejoined the band. And, I was very clear which direction I wanted go with. And that, simply hit together very, very smooth. Together basically, Chris and me wrote the songs of the album, and well, everybody has an equal say, within the songs. Some songs we didn’t change anything, because we felt nice as they are, some we rearranged, and vice versa. It’s a very open way to work together, with everything.
This time around, with the new album, you just mentioned it; about doing different kind of songs. I talked with the bassist of Psycroptic Todd Stern, a couple of years ago; about the live music setting: New album comes out, you play the new stuff, you play this, and then it's the just same kind of cycle. I actually appreciate when the bands play the newer record more. There's so many songs and discography of all the bands, that we'll never get to hear. I don't know, there was something different, I don't like the "Greatest Hits" of the band. I want to hear, even if it's not my favorite songs, I want to hear just different songs because, each tour tells a different story. How is making a setlist? Is it from the band, is it from one person, is it just what you believe is the mindset is for the tour coming up? It's difficult to make a good setlist, right?
Hmm, yes and no. I mean, we have a new album out, so we're not a retro band. We're not playing--
Thank you! (laughs)
I don't know, the "20 Years of Something" album, for the sake of it. The focus of the new tour, is basically the new album. So, we're looking forward and not backward. We still have a nice mix of evergreens; of songs we have to play. But we also mix every now and then. So, we didn't focus on the most technical songs this time. We thought about, how to arrange an entire dynamic show, front to end. "What would be interesting if you put yourself into the perspective of a fan, what do you like?" That's my approach, because I'm still a fan of so many bands out there, I want to see, and hopefully get to see again, if you're open to us again. So, that's more important to me. I rather see new material, than the evergreens forever.
Agreed!
I know fans always want to hear some certain songs.
Yeah, I just don't believe in the "Greatest Hits", it's the same story. It's the same telling of a story, when each tour should be different on its own, even if it's 2-3 tours of the new album. And, for "Devoured Usurper", I noticed that was the only (song), where you did low growls, I noticed. Was there a different approach because of the more, you know, spacious material, the faster material? Were the growls not necessary in this, or how did that decision natural, or a conscious decision?
I didn't overthink everything, to be honest. Those lower growls, they work best if you have, like mid-tempo songs. And with "Devoured Usurper", I think that's the only one on the album. It's a little bit faster, I feel the super low-growls don't fit the fast material. That's simply my feeling. Therefore, we just try a little bit here and there. We focused a little bit more clean vocals, we changed the use of the vocoder, on the new album entirely. It sounds a little bit different, more like choir-soothing something. We just try to keep it interesting, so let's see. Maybe the next album, will contain more growls, depending on the material. I mean, the song defines basically how everything else is going to be, and built around it.
I also think it's good, because you mentioned, when I saw the show the other day, certain songs had that growl, so it's like a "less is more", so when we heard, it was more of a surprise instead of the same vocal product. It changes up, you're right, that change up.
The contrast, basically.
Right. And you mentioned too, changing up, the middle--I thought the whole song would be very slow, and then you had that (humming the chords at 2:36 into "Devoured Usurper"), that really faster kind of beat.
It's upbeat! (laughs)
I really appreciated it. I thought it was going to be a slower song like "Ocean Gateways", but it was, "Whoa! I wasn't expecting that." And bringing that back in, that same speed with the vocals. What is it like making those kind of tempo changes? Is that something like, is that more a "drummer's touch" of things? I like to know more about those kind of, quick manipulation of tempo things, I like those aspects.
Especially in this song, it was more something that we decided internally, Chris came up with the idea. Because it's exactly the opposite, it's a D-beat, maybe in, too odd on the old albums. It's exactly the opposite, would you expect from a Technical or a Progressive Death Metal band? It's "Caveman Music", sort to say. And we thought, "Okay, let's do it. Because nobody will expect that!" That's exactly this is going to happen. The funny part is, I talk about especially this part with this song, so often, in every single interview. Because, this contrast, the unexpected. It's quite cool. The idea was basically a fun thing within the band, but it turned out quite well.
Is there more material already been made, coming up? Does the band want to make more studio work ready, or focus on this album? Or, when touring became more available? What's the focus coming up, for the rest of the year? You mentioned about the visas, it's one calendar year you get your visa, so you want to get all the tours you can from that, right? Is that the plan going forward, if things are "normal?"
We always work in album cycles. So, I think the next 2, maybe 3 years, we are constantly be touring. We already announced a European tour for Fall this year, we have a couple of festivals, very big festivals coming up. And, I think that it's the first time we're playing with Metallica in Europe, so that's really cool.
Wow!
Really looking forward to that. And for 2023, we also have a couple of tours lined up, basically all over the world. Somewhere in between let's say, I don't know when exactly, but at a certain point we just start writing a new album. Right now, I don't focus on that. I'm entirely wrapped through stage production at the moment, we have something new here, compared to the last time. We have fully programmed lightshow, stage props, a new feel for the band. So, we try to first fix this, you've been in San Diego. Let's see, we have a bigger stage here, how it looks now.
So those music videos, that production stayed with you? "Hey, let's bring that to the live show", when everything was ready, right? All of those music videos, all of that production, those kinds of places, it kind of stuck with you, right?
It was a little different, exactly the opposite, because I first designed the entire live production. So, I constructed everything, I designed everything, I made everything ready to be printed. And, then we thought, "Okay, the last music video, of all the floor, should be some kind of a spoiler, for the live shows." So, we had to print, produce, and build up the entire live show, as of this year. Half a year ago, when we filmed the music video. So, that was connected on purpose.
A little more easter egg from the band. You're right, I appreciate now, with technology, you can see more what the band is like. You can see podcasts now. Now bands that we grew up with, are talking about things you never knew about, "Oh, that's why that tour did that. That's why that did that." It's a nice thing we can appreciate now, with technology and how advanced it is, you know?
Absolutely, absolutely.
I always make the comparison with guitar players like with Dave Mustaine and Marty Friedman. When you hear Marty's solos back with Megadeth, you knew it was him. When you heard Dave's solos, you knew which kind he was doing. I like to talk the dynamic between you and Christian, in terms of guitar players. How would you say, what is your "style" like? And what does his "style" consist of?
Hard to say. I think Chris is, playing very unique, so you hear within a second who's playing which solos. My side? I don't know. I'm, Chris is the guy who basically composes every solo, I'm not.
Even the ones that you perform?
Yeah. It's half-half. So, first I improvise, then I write it down on sheet music, Guitar Pro, and then I see what I can build out of it. So, it's like a 50/50 process. So, my approach is entirely different. While Chris, first writes everything down, and then he takes the guitar. It's different approach, different characters, different players. And we have a couple of trade-off solos, just for the fun of it. And also, some easter eggs, the album goes to 11, literally like Spinal Tap.
There’re 11 songs, right?
Yeah, 11 songs. The first song, "Forsaken", has, contains 11 solos, on purpose.
(laughs) I appreciate those kinds of details. That was also my first time seeing Christian play live, and I only saw clips of Necrophagist back in the day.
Oh, that's a long time ago.
Yeah, and Spawn of Possession, a little bit here and there. So, it was just great to see that style of him. I'm so glad he's still able to play. I know he's nursing that hand, so, I'm glad he can still play and perform, and all that. So, going forward, we don't know if this is going to keep going. We don't know if time's going to be taken away from us again. Asides the tours, asides the festivals coming up, what do you personally want the band, what level? Either popularity or not, or music or anything. For the person of Obscura, who made the band, what would you like to achieve? What is left on the "bucket list?" What else would you personally like to do, even if it's off the wall, something different. Is there a special "request" on that "bucket list", that you would really like to achieve? Maybe it'll take a couple of years, but that's a new goal you want to have?
Well, I always have small wishes, and I build up the band piece, by piece, by piece, since 20 years. And, what I want to achieve is simply the fact, that everybody who's playing in the band, enjoys what he's doing. That's my biggest thing. I simply do not want to go on tour because I have to, I don't want to do an album because I have to, because I want to, that's my aim. I simply want to keep the joy of making music. Because, I see so many friends, who also play in touring bands, they had simply burned out. I've been there, as well, 10 years ago. So, I simply want to keep it, smooth. Keep the "Rock N' Roll", enjoy what you're doing, enjoy traveling the world, play for your fans, because that's why you're there. Not the opposite, some people think that.
So, keeping this enough, of course I want to play some tours, with people I really respect. For example: Testament, Megadeth, it would be amazing. Gojira, Kreator from Germany, we've never played with a German band, or toured with a German band so far, so that would be fun.
Like, ever? Not even the small opener, or headliner, nothing, huh?
I think we once a band from Munich, touring with us in Germany, small tours. But I mean, one of the bigger bands from Germany? We never did that, never had a chance to do that. I would like to go to South America, I would like to visit China, Russia. There’re so many spots in the world I never visited, not even privately.
Playing music, traveling is one of the best ways you get to do all that, playing music, you know? So many opportunities. A few more questions, again, thank you for your time. With everyone that writes, and with everyone that contributes, when I talked with you a few years ago, with the past members. It was still important to you, everyone contributes, everyone has a say. So, are there any "rules", in terms of everyone kind of knows, everybody can have an opinion, an idea with the music, or just life? Do you have a certain "golden rule" or silent rule, that everyone kind of maybe either agreed upon, or something that extra makes sure, that everything would, you said, be as happy and as content? Any special rule, or anything?
I mean, the band is basically my band. It's quite clear. So, I give the directions, and everybody's welcome to contribute. If you like that, you're very welcome. But if you don't like this direction or something, then maybe this is not the right thing for you. But, so far, if you want to join, you're very welcome, and then we work together with everything. That's quite cool. So, I keep the musicians in the music cycle, and I take away from them all everything else. Like the visa stuff, there's always some issues. I do not want to have convert, to the band. I basically take this all from their shoulders, so the musicians should contribute that what they can do best: the band. We make music together, and if you start bringing other topics into that group, then it's going to be complicated. Therefore, we just have a management, we have PR company, public relations, and then it makes everything a little bit more easy, for everybody. Because, you have less pressure on your shoulders, that helps a lot. So, I'm coordinating everything, I'm basically "the guy in charge", and decisions are made on my table, but still, in every department, everybody's fine to say. It's not a dictatorship, but I show the way. It's a thin line in between.
I know what you're saying! You made the band in 2002, I believe, right? 20 years now for the band. What have you learned growing up with the bands that we listen to, the bands you grew up with, your vision, and what you want for Obscura? What have you learned, I guess from, when you first started the band, to today, 20 years of time? What have you personally learned the most about yourself, the peaks, the valleys, the good and everything about it? The good times, the bad moments, what big lesson have you taken from starting, to now, that is keeping you here? I guess I'd like to know, what were you like at that time? The things you thought then, were the goals completely different? What was it like you starting this project, this band, this creation, that we all enjoy and love, that we can see on our side as fans, but from the musician himself, what was it like, and where were you at that time?
I was a kid. I formed the band when I was 16, no, I turned 17. I picked up a guitar at 16, and half a year later, we formed Obscura. And, it was just for the sake of the music. And this is something I want to keep, up to this day. In the time in between, I learned so many very valuable lessons. For example, the very first time we entered the United States, we play as support for Cannibal Corpse, and we got invited by the band. And, they took us aside to show us how everything works in the states. They treated us excellent, excellent! And I only hear so many similar stories from other bands, underground bands that we got the chance to tour with.
This was a very, very good lesson. Because, somehow, we're now in the position that we, we do headliner tours. That means, we pick all the bands, that are going to play with us. And, we treat them exactly the same. So, if you're a support band on an Obscura tour, you get treated the same way. You're part of the team, you're part of the entire touring cycle. You're not somebody who is waiting outside in an alley, where it's windy, rainy and don't get anything to eat, no. It's not the case. You treat somebody, how you want to get treated, that's the golden rule my parents gave me 20 years ago, 30 years ago. And, this is something you have to somehow translate to the music scene as well. Of course, they're assholes, that people try to fuck you over, that happens everywhere. But, if you keep it positive, and rather just optimistic, and just treat people nice, it will be fun.
Your energy is very infectious, and I'm very glad there's someone like you, in your position, to create the music you make, and to help others, to help get exposure, get eyes, ears, and people, as much into the other bands, as possible. To where, they could be in your position in a couple of years, and we keep a good cycle going! A good cycle of bands, I think that's very, very important. And, I can feel that from you. As someone who's been going to shows for 25 something years, I tremendously appreciate it. Because, that's what keeps this going, and this tour and things, I'm grateful for that.
This scene is so small, everybody knows each other. Well, we had it so often, a local band turned out to be a touring band, turned out to be a very successful act. In our position, we brought Beyond Creation to Europe, for the very first tour in Europe. They've been a local band, in I think Montreal, when we played there for Omnivium in 2011, I think?
Yeah! The Aura (For Beyond Creation) came out then, yeah.
The same happened with Fallujah, the same happened with Fractal Universe, and a couple of other bands from Europe. So, you never know. If there's a cool local band, just take them on tour. That's how you support each other, we started the same. We got picked by Cannibal Corpse, by Children of Bodom, by other bands. Not because they had to pick us, because they liked the music. And we do exactly the same. This is how the scene works, in my opinion.
A good scene, a very good scene, I agree! Any last words, this is a big, how many dates of this tour? 34-35 dates? I can't remember. It's a lot!
We just added 3 shows in Mexico.
That's great!
In total, it's 47 shows.
Wow!
And this is #3, so let's see, we can make some photos of Before and then Afterwards! (laughs).
(laughs) That's cool! Anything you like to say for the next 47 shows, you'll be here for a while. Anything you'd like to say, your last word for tonight, the rest of the tour, and what we can expect on this?
Shows are happening again. Come to the concerts, support all of the bands on the bill, and well, just have a good time. It's about time shows are happening again!